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I love it when people throw around phrases like "unverified hearsay" as if they have a clue regarding what they are talking about.
The fact that youwrote about yourself may not make it necessarily true, but if you are writing about your family history, it does make it an exception to the hearsay rule under the Rule 803 (19) of the Federal Rules of Evidence.
So... unless you actually have something to contradict it, it stands.
Here you go:
Quote:
(4) Statement of personal or family history. (A) A statement concerning the declarant's own birth, adoption, marriage, divorce, legitimacy, relationship by blood, adoption, or marriage, ancestry, or other similar fact of personal or family history, even though declarant had no means of acquiring personal knowledge of the matter stated; or (B) a statement concerning the foregoing matters, and death also, of another person, if the declarant was related to the other by blood, adoption, or marriage or was so intimately associated with the other's family as to be likely to have accurate information concerning the matter declared.
Hawaii HAS Obama's original birth record. It can be accessed, as has already been done by Hawaiian officials. Obama's hearsay is unacceptable, given his proven propensity to lie when it suits his purpose.
Hawaiian officials claim to have seen the original in 2008, which means it CAN be accessed.
Obama has no excuse to withhold it, unless he's trying to hide something, which looks quite obvious at this point.
Interesting point about Hawaii's DHHL requirement. What they require now was changed after Obama released his incomplete birth record. Prior to that, an actual certified birth certificate (NOT certification of live birth) was required to circumvent the otherwise extensive verification process.
Funny that... the Hawaii DHHL had stricter requirements than the DNC.
Not to mention the fact that under Hawaiian law, as previously noted, it is entirely possible for a person to have been born out of state and/or out of the country and still have a birth certificate on file with the Hawaii Department of Health.
Wrong yet again. Under Hawaii law what was released by Obama is a legal birth certificate. Just because you choose to believe in unhinged conspiracy theory over actual facts and laws well....
And the one thing if someone was born elsewhere in would not state the place of birth as being Hawaii. But damn why believe facts and law when you can believe in unhinged conspiracy.....
Hawaiian officials claim to have seen the original in 2008, which means it CAN be accessed.
Yes did you miss the part that they have no business in releasing it without Obama's permission?
did you miss the part that the COLB is the ONLY form that is issued by the State of Hawaii, so no matter the request, ALL Hawaii citizens will receive the same form?
I can no more ask for my "long form" as Obama can. The only form that i will receive, no matter how much I complain will be the COLB that has been in existence since at least the 1990's before they went all digital in 2001.
I've asked for my COLb no less than 4 times. In all four instances, I've received the exact form in the SAME damn layout with the same information as Obama's COLB.
If you don't like the way Hawaii does their forms, THEN complain to the Department of Health in Hawaii.
Otherwise, you're just pissed that some Black guy is in office, who has a foreign sounding name despite all evidence that he was born here.
sour grapes is all you have.
Quote:
Obama has no excuse to withhold it, unless he's trying to hide something, which looks quite obvious at this point.
sorry, but what is he trying to hide exactly? cause that is YOUR speculation and its not supported by ANY evidence whatsoever.
and as stated over and over again, he may not have his "original" BC; I sure don't as it was loss by my parents. how much moving did Stanley do in her years? Hawaii > Seattle > Hawaii > Indonesia > Hawaii
Do you honestly think that records can be kept safe with that much moving in a child's life? My parents moved twice and couldn't keep my BC safe. I lived in Hawaii nearly all my life and have requested my COLB 4 times!!!
He wrote an autobiography for heaven's sake. If he wanted to hide "something" why THE freak would he have an autobiography written????
You birthers make no freaking sense.
ETA: and Obama would have to go to court in order to make DoH in Hawaii to produce the original form, and that there would be a VERY good reason to release that information. and the only reason I would think would float, would be if he was an orphan who was adopted and needed the medical information that is found on the original that is not provided by the current form. medical information that would most likely help him understand something he is going through now, that only that form would lend to. Other than, he has no reason to get the original since the current version for all intents and purposes is LEGAL!
Quote:
Interesting point about Hawaii's DHHL requirement. What they require now was changed after Obama released his incomplete birth record.
Prior to that, an actual certified birth certificate (NOT certification of live birth) was required to circumvent the otherwise extensive verification process.
Funny that... the Hawaii DHHL had stricter requirements than the DNC.
Because after all the hoopla over Obama and many birthers were inundating the DOH with what the **** is a Certification of Live Birth, they had to correct their page to reflect that Hawaii has issued both Certificate of Live births (the original) and Certification of Live Births (what they provide now) so that birthers like you would know the freaking difference.
DHHL requires stricter requirements because native Hawaiian's are afforded benefits if they can prove their Hawaiian lineage.
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Not to mention the fact that under Hawaiian law, as previously noted, it is entirely possible for a person to have been born out of state and/or out of the country and still have a birth certificate on file with the Hawaii Department of Health.
Under Hawaii law (actually all US law), a person who was born in a foreign country to non-us citizen parents would have a birth certificate that would state their birth country; even though they would get a Department of Health COLB, their place of birth would reflect their country of birth, as it did for my friend who came from the Philippines. Yes it will be filed with the HAwaii Department of Health since to be addmitted here, you need to have your records filed there!
Appears that Hawaii does provide BC that list the hosp and doctor that brought you into this world.
All Obama has to do is get his for whatever the cost is 20.00 whatever and provide it and put this to end. I dont see the problem in doing that
NO, it does NOT.
"The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request formdoes not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department."
So even if he wanted it -- even if he asked for it -- he couldn't get it.
And you know what? Even if he did, every one of the birthers would be screaming about how he acted outside of his authority as President to usurp State laws.
There is absolutely nothing, nothing that would satisfy you people.
Ah... here we go. You can't debate, so you play the race card. You must have gotten JournoList's memo.
And here we go indeed.
There is nothing to debate here except the continuing mental illness of the Birfers, and their proxy racism.
Saying "waaaaaah you're playing the race card' doesn't make it untrue. In fact, I find it a pretty pathetic excuse for people to continue to be racist.
Before you all jump too far on the 'bash the birfers' bandwagon - my own personal feelings on this... three possibilities:
- Obama's Hawaiian birth certificate is one of the type that provides no real proof of location of birth because it does not list a doctor or hospital, or is simply based on a statement from a non-parent to satisfy the state requirements for receipt of a birth certificate. This would not prove that Obama was not born in Hawaii, but it would cast significant doubt on the objective provability that he was.
- His birth father is listed as a different father than the one he has been claiming to be his father. This would essentially mean nothing, but would embarrass him and demonstrate further how willing Obama is to make up "facts" that are politically expedient.
- Obama's name and/or race/ethnicity on the original birth certificate is different from what he has been promoting, meaning another lie for political expediancy.
Birth certificate issues aside, as far as the Constitution's 'natural born citizen' requirement... after a lot of research into the issue, I'm in the camp that Obama does not meet the intent of the Constitution's requirement by virtue of his non-citizen father.
Main supporting factor:
The use and definition of natural born citizen as used in the Constitution can easily be traced to Vattel's Law of Nations.
Quote:
§ 212. Of the citizens and natives.
The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.
Benjamin Franklin noted Vattels' Law of Nation's influence on the "rising state" in his correspondence to Dumas in 1775.
Quote:
Benjamin Franklin to Charles William Frederic Dumas
Philadelphia, 9 December, 1775
...I am much obliged by the kind present you have made us of your edition of Vattel. It came to us in good season, when the circumstances of a rising state make it necessary frequently to consult the law of nations. Accordingly that copy, which I kept, (after depositing one in our own public library here, and sending the other to the College of Massachusetts Bay, as you directed,) has been continually in the hands of the members of our Congress, now sitting, who are much pleased with your notes and preface, and have entertained a high and just esteem for their author.
As another example, Bobby Jindal (Republican) wouldn't meet the Constitution's NBC requirement, either - his parents were not American citizens at the time of his birth.
There is nothing to debate here except the continuing mental illness of the Birfers, and their proxy racism.
Saying "waaaaaah you're playing the race card' doesn't make it untrue. In fact, I find it a pretty pathetic excuse for people to continue to be racist.
The shoe fits.
Wear it.
There you are, clinging desperately to your race card.
Meanwhile, I've posted careful, thoughtful analysis and support for my position on Obama's ineligibility in my post, above.
Here we go again! Vattel may have been a useful reference, but he was not an American and his word is not law in this country. What is law is the law, and the 14th amendment makes Bobby Jindal a natural-born citizen.
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