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What happens in WAR ZONES like Iraq and Afghanistan, is not akin to what happens in the United States. This seems to be an ongoing ploy by people who are anti-Muslim in the United States, to point fingers elsewhere. The United States does not rule the world. We don't dictate how other countries should handle their affairs. We don't expect people who live in other countries to have the same values, culture, or principles that we have in the United States. The rest of the world are not US citizens. However, there are Muslims who live in the United States, who are US citizens, who do share the same values you claim to have. There are Muslims who are US citizens, and the VAST majority of them are loyal to the United States.
Muslims, like Jews, like fundamental Baptists that are Americans also have a sub-culture. If you live in Massachusetts, you are part of a sub-culture. If you are Polish in Chicago, you are part of a sub-culture. If you are a Southern Baptist in Alabama, sub-culture. Sub-cultures are extensions of the larger, more dominant cultures. However, sub-cultures can be quite distinct and quite vibrant. Sometimes the distinctions make it easier for people within those sub-cultures to resolve problems internally, rather than burdening the legal system of the larger society. Some sub-cultures actually require that certain internal standards be met. For instance, the Catholic annulment of marriages is an extra burden that devout Catholics accept as part of the sub-culture they belong to. There are numerous arbitration avenues available to Americans. Our society supports them because arbitration relieves the courts of some of the overwhelming burden which can lead to bad court decisions, and long, drawn-out waiting to present a case. Formal arbitration is not part of the criminal process in our legal system, though I would contend that plea deals are a form of arbitration. Formal arbitration is an important and growing part of the civil process.
Suicide bombers in Pakistan are a sad testament to the difficulty human beings have sometimes in finding ways to resolve problems. Suicide bombers in the United States are an equally sad testament to this difficulty. The murder rate in the United States is also an equally sad testament to this difficulty. The level of violence in the United States has long been a topic of discussion for criminologists and other scholars, has received much attention from sociologists to geographers who are involved with city planning and the use of public services. We're distinct from the rest of the world in that our political system has been remarkably stable, an advantage of the two-party system that developed here, so political violence has been relatively rare, and thus extremely shocking to our society. This distinction is not true of the rest of the world, where political violence is much more common.
The United States is also distinct in that the very foundation for our government and our laws, the Constitution of the United States, expressly forbids government promoting a religion. That history has meant that we have not seen the religious factions struggle for political power to the extent that it happens in other countries. It's a very unique situation, and many Americans are shocked and disconcerted by the involvement in other countries of religion, and the religious struggles for power. But historically and globally, religion has played a profound role in the political process. We are unique. We should value that. We have laws and policies that keep religion's involvement in the government to a minimum. And those laws and policies that have prevented the religion of the majority of Americans from being adapted by the government and legal system, protect Americans from religions of a minority of Americans from being adapted by the government and legal system. As Americans it's our job to make sure that the laws that assure the separation of government and religion remain strong. If the government, on the federal or state level, should start passing laws against any particular religion, then the separation is irreparably weakened. The separation must remain strong.
That does not mean that people of religion are free to break laws in the name of their religion. If the laws are equitably applied, without regard to religion, then the separation remains strong. Laws against stoning, against mutilation, against rape, are all laws of the United States. We are a nation built on laws. We are also a nation built on tolerance. Our entire system of government is about balance. We balance the different branches of government against one another. We balance the interests of the individual against the interests of society. We balance tolerance against freedom. I believe that our system is something beautiful, it is elegant and effective. I believe it works. But it can only work if we continue to support it, if we continue to believe in the principles that make it work. And the greatest threat to that belief, to that faith, is fear.
I'm not afraid of Muslims, a political and religious minority, having undue influence. I'm afraid of average American citizens, a political majority, letting fear lead them to undermining those principles, to damaging the delicate balance. Fear destroys rationality. It is the enemy of reason. The delicate balance that is our government depends upon Americans being rational and reasonable and thoughtful and responsible.
Thanks very much for such a cogent analysis. I wholeheartedly agree with everything said above, particularly with the bolded portion.
Protecting the nation means upholding the Constitution and its principles, not abandoning those principles out of fear.
You assume others are abandoning those principles.
Quote:
I do recognize that religious extremists pose a threat to the country. But it's not rational to think that because some of those extremists are Muslims that all Muslims are our enemy. Nor is it rational to take the position that we are at war with a religion. You cannot win a war against a religion. Especially a religion practed by 1/5 of the world's population. The United States doesn't have enough people to fight 1/5 of the world's population. Vigilance would include not waging a war you will inevitably lose.
And now you appear to desire capitulation because those that wish to destroy us are bigger than we are.
We should assimilate into their religion? Because there are more of them than us?
You assume others are abandoning those principles.
And now you appear to desire capitulation because those that wish to destroy us are bigger than we are.
We should assimilate into their religion? Because there are more of them than us?
Nice way to cave to Islam.
Do you think that's in any way rational?
I don't think any of your interpretations of my statements are rational.
If the principle is freedom of religion, restricting the practice of that religion as long as it abides by the law would be a violation of that principle. Advocating that we should violate our principles is indeed abandoning them.
And where do you get capitulation? Because I said we could not wage a war on a religion? We can't. It's a practical impossibility. By killing people, you don't kill the ideas they have. You especially don't kill the idea that you are intolerant by trying to kill a religion.
Cave into Islam? No. But it seems you have caved into fear of Islam, and used that fear to justify your irrational intolerance.
Fear of Islam? Islam's stated goal is to kill every last American infidel.
Vigilance of this fact is irrational intolerance?
Give me a break.
You show irrational tolerance.
They'll decapitate anyone who oppose them. You, me, our children. They'll not ask your view or if you were tolerant towards their ideas.
Opposition to those that desire to do these things is not irrational.
Turning the other cheek will just give them another angle to cut from.
Moderate muslims do not exist. They are merely dormat. Read their 'peaceful' book. It will show you their true intent.
Those that tell you anything otherwise are practicing Taqiyya.
So the Muslim-Americans who have been in this country since the founding have just been waiting for going on 300 years to take over?
Thanks for the newsflash
Does the Muslim Brotherhood believe we are in a religious war?
Does it matter?
There are people around the world that oppose United States policies and, by extension, the United States. Those people may consider themselves to be at war with the United States, but the United States doesn't have to think that they are war with those people. If they break the laws of their country, they get punished by their country. I believe the Muslim Brotherhood is very active in Egypt. Are we at war with Egypt?
I watch in horror at the 'peaceful' thigs they've done in their god's name.
I care for my brother who thankfully came back from both theaters of war.
I wait and wait for 'moderate peace loving' muslims to condemn the horror their brethren have brought upon mankind. They are largely silent - so very few speak up. I have to wonder why.
I have come to believe this speech by Winston Churchill:
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the infence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith.
It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."
Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50, London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).
There are people around the world that oppose United States policies and, by extension, the United States. Those people may consider themselves to be at war with the United States, but the United States doesn't have to think that they are war with those people. If they break the laws of their country, they get punished by their country. I believe the Muslim Brotherhood is very active in Egypt. Are we at war with Egypt?
Have you looked into the American Brotherhood and what it has been trying to do ever since it was established here, DC? It appears that either you haven't looked or are trying very hard to convince people that they aren't nearly as bad a group as I think they are from what I have read. Do you have a paid job with them?
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