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Of course hard work is important, but most of the rich are also very lucky. You need luck AND hard-work to be rich. The problem with setting taxes is that people just assume that the rich's wealth is proportional to their effort. I don't think that's true. I think it's more like after a certain amount of effort, you need luck to be super successful.
That's why I think the rich needs to have more taxes. It accounts for the luck factor.
The book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell talks a lot about how people become successful.
"they are invariably the beneficiaries of hidden advantages and extraordinary opportunities and cultural legacies that allow them to learn and work hard and make sense of the world in ways others cannot"
Neither luck, nor hard work, nor intelligence, have anything to do with it. LOL
Read "Think and grow rich", by Napoleon Hill.
Faith, burning desire, perserverance, determination, are what make people wealthy.
99 percent of the adult population has NO GOAL. If you ask them what their goal is...they will say...."get rich" or "I don't know".
You have to have a clearly defined goal, a plan, and the willingness to DIE before you give up.
that's not what capitalism is about. the lie is everyone can become rich. of course they can't, people need others to work for them at less pay.
people should at least be honest enough to stop pretending that anyone and everyone can get rich.
what is so "totally" dishonest about your statement is not all rich people work hard or worked harder. getting rich is not always about "working hard" as it is about being able to be enterprising and working a system to your advantage. and to be honest, that would be more disadvantageous to another as a result. there are plenty of non-rich people that work very hard. there are also plenty of people who are rich because they 'own', not necessarily because they work harder then their employees. anyone familiar with capitalism knows these basics so i dont' understand all this bs that people spew as if people don't know.
i can see by the majority of the posts that humanity will continue to have these problems that everyone is arguing over on these forums because everyone is out for themselves. there will be no real solution.
Not everybody is cut out to start a business or invest. But that is the beauty of capitalism. THere is a place for everybody and everybody is FREE to pursue their dreams, wheather that is becoming "rich" or some other goal. You wrongly believe that becoming "rich" is what everybody wants. There are a lot of people happy to work low-mid paying jobs where they can leave at the end of the day and not worry about their job until 8am the next day. Low-mid paying jobs are also easier to find and require less education than higher paying jobs, which appeals to many people.
why should i have gone into investment banking? what is wrong with the hotel industry? hilton made his money in the hotel industry, as did many others. one does not have to have the best education to make themselves rich though, take bill gates, he dropped out of college, dave thomas never went to college, neither did sam walton or colonel sanders, or many others who made themselves rich, and NONE of the ones i mentioned were investment bankers.
and why so you think that only investment bankers can get rich? you have an extremely myopic view of the world.
Because you said you can do whatever you want if you put in the effort. I just proved that you couldn't have gotten into investment banks.
Seriously, do you really think that you can do anything if you try hard enough? Why are most Olympic marathon runners African?
I think you are talking to a college student who desires to be an investment banker.
he is a college student.
one thing liberals forget to take into account is that you can take away all the money you want from a rich person, and give it to a poor person, and with in a few years the formerly rich person will be rich again, and the formerly poor person will be poor again in the vast majority of cases.
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Originally Posted by azriverfan.
Funny because when I went to Target, I didn't see three separate price tags for the items I purchased. I didn't see $2 for Lower Income people, $5 for Middle Class people and $10 for Rich people. I paid the same sales tax as the next guy despite my income.
Why don't we just charge rich people higher prices if all of a sudden we are going to hold wealthy people accountable to bail out our country's economy? After all some people are lucky and born rich so why shouldn't we charge them $5 for a Big Mac instead of $3. Why shouldn't we charge people higher property taxes regardless of the price of their home if they are wealthy?
Why stop with income taxes? Why not just charge them more when purchasing items, property tax and sales tax? Why not make us carry an ID card that has our W2 on it and based on that code, we should be charged higher prices? "Sorry sir, since you make $500K per year, you are required to pay 20% sales tax for this item" The concept is the same. Rich people should pay so why stop with income taxes?
Great argument!
good argument.
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Originally Posted by rory00
this type of unthinking rhetoric is very sad. it is also pretty damn dishonest. it makes you wonder why people get away with it, i suspect it's because most people would rather live with the prospect of getting rich than living in a system that is not as imbalanced. you are indicating an extreme.
but how did they rich get that way? no one gets rich by themselves, it's ignoring the big pink elephant in the room. the rich get rich also by the contribution and work of others.
you are right, the rich did have help along the way, mostly from customers buying their products or services from the businesses the rich started. they also had the help of employees they hired to work for them. and yes most of the rich started off working for someone else as well and moved up through the ranks to the upper management. how? by striving for perfection, and working the long hours needed to make themselves invaluable to the business they were working for. and by learning everything about business that they could.
so yes, they had help, but in order to get that help they had to WORK for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00
that's not what capitalism is about. the lie is everyone can become rich. of course they can't, people need others to work for them at less pay.
people should at least be honest enough to stop pretending that anyone and everyone can get rich.
anyone who wants to become rich, and is willing to put in the needed effort, and learn everything they can, can in fact become as rich as they want. that is the truth. and they can do it honestly. there is a japanese billionare who got that way by being good to his employees and business associates as well as his customers. he paid his employees more than the average pay rates in the respective businesses he owned.
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what is so "totally" dishonest about your statement is not all rich people work hard or worked harder. getting rich is not always about "working hard" as it is about being able to be enterprising and working a system to your advantage. and to be honest, that would be more disadvantageous to another as a result. there are plenty of non-rich people that work very hard. there are also plenty of people who are rich because they 'own', not necessarily because they work harder then their employees. anyone familiar with capitalism knows these basics so i dont' understand all this bs that people spew as if people don't know.
you are right, it is not always about working hard, working smart is also needed. and you need to take advantage of the opportunities put in front of you. but the rich do work hard and put in a lot of hours to get where they are. in fact the average rich person puts in around 120 hours per week to make their business successful. how many hours does the average poor person put in per week? try 40.
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i can see by the majority of the posts that humanity will continue to have these problems that everyone is arguing over on these forums because everyone is out for themselves. there will be no real solution.
really? is that your thinking on this? i feel sorry for you then. chances are that you will never reach the goals you have set for yourself in life because you have such a negative attitude towards others. the rich usually set up tax free foundations, granted to minimize their tax liability, but in order for these foundations to remain tax free, they have to give away a certain percentage of their money every year. and that means that billions are given away by the rich every year to charities, and to people in need who apply to the foundations for support.
Saying the rich are are just lucky is what lazy, losers say. It's much easier to make stupid statements than to get off your lazy butt and try to do something to improve your own status.
If you worked hard and became rich, you wouldn't be in here complaining about those more successful than yourself..
Yup, the old "I haven't made it because I'm unlucky. Not because I'm lazy, dumb or timid."
There's no such thing as luck. Just people that identify opportunity, and seize the moment.
So you think Monopoly requires just as much skill as chess?
I'm not rich because I'm only 20 and I'm just a student at a Top 30 (worldwide) university. However, I'm intimate with someone who makes around $500K per year. I'm friends with someone who just bought two new Mercedes convertibles. I'm not sure if those people are "rich" but they definitely are wealthier than 99% of Americans.
Luck had a lot to do with how they become rich or at least their current lifestyle.
I've never said that I'm an expert. That's why I recommended Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers.
Have you ever heard of a random number generator? That's pure luck. The existence of pure randomness can be proven.
My point is not to make a statement about current tax rates, but to say that the concept that everything is determined by hard work is wrong. I just can't stand how the Republicans say that the rich get all their money from hardwork without any luck. Life is unfair, we should accept that rather than pretend that life is fair.
Please explain how luck made them wealthy. Unless they won big in the lottery, I think it has a lot more to do with decisions they've made.
Of course hard work is important, but most of the rich are also very lucky. You need luck AND hard-work to be rich. The problem with setting taxes is that people just assume that the rich's wealth is proportional to their effort. I don't think that's true. I think it's more like after a certain amount of effort, you need luck to be super successful.
That's why I think the rich needs to have more taxes. It accounts for the luck factor.
The book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell talks a lot about how people become successful.
Who said, "THE HARDER I WORK ... THE LUCKIER I GET --? But, there is a lot of truth in it!
As a general rule, wealthy people have learned to work 'smarter', not 'harder' ... and there's nothing wrong with that --- is there? Not many 'lucky' people stay lucky all the time -- and those who expect to, don't stay wealthy -- They are called "gamblers"
I still don't know what exactly being rich means, what is the threshold in terms of dollars or euros? No matter how much or smart they work, nobody deserves to be a millionaire, let alone billionaire.
I don't like rich people, I consider them unwise and foolish, their properties, goals, and priorities are incompatible with mine. Bad company...
I still don't know what exactly being rich means, what is the threshold in terms of dollars or euros? No matter how much or smart they work, nobody deserves to be a millionaire, let alone billionaire.
I don't like rich people, I consider them unwise and foolish, their properties, goals, and priorities are incompatible with mine. Bad company...
too bad, because the rich are generally very good people to know. i should know because i rubbed elbows with many of them in various places i have worked.
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Don't know who said it, BUT ...
