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Just a few notes on this one, and speaking as a public school teacher...
Admittedly, there seems to be some sort of visceral aversion over the notion that teachers should be allowed to carry in schools. That, as you say, the perception is that we are caregivers and bonders and yeah, teachers! LOL...overrules all other considerations.
But let me give the flip side of it....
I have a concealed handgun license (although, I seldom actually carry) as do a couple of my colleagues. We have discussed this before, and with the police officer often on duty in our building.
The general consensus is that no one expects -- in the worst case scenario (Columbine, Platte City, Pearl, Mississippi, etc) -- that the armed teachers (i.e. those legally permitted to carry) act as a SWAT team.
No, the idea is that we have the means to secure our own areas and protect the kids in our charge (allowing them to get out windows, doors, etc) until the real professionals arrive on the scene. Which, naturally, is going to be a few crucial minutes even under the best of circumstances. Meanwhile, who is going to protect the students?
I am not saying every cop feels this way, but the one most often assigned to our building said he would welcome the help...with, of course, the above stated understanding that the teacher limited (our) role to just protecting our area and not taking any pre-determined offensive measures.
So, IMHO, the idea of permitting properly trained and licensed teachers to carry is not so outlandish as it might first appear...
I don't know about you, but I can certainly picture a kid(s) stealing a gun from a teacher. I used to be a teacher, and I think this is a horrible idea. This doesn't prevent anything either, if a Columbine were to happen, the shooter just knows where to aim first now.
The reason the bad guys get guns to rape, rob, terrorize is because of YOU and others who obviously think that being able to purchase a gun for "protection" or want the right to "hunt food", is a legitimate reason to put many many many lives at risk.... so sad but so true. Everytime a innocent child or police officer or citizen is between the sights of a looney tune or a normally sane citizen who has "flipped" think of who really is resonsible for that situation occuring..... yes you got it.... the outdated and soooo backward gun lobby because without them there would be thousands of GOOD Americans still with their families today.
LMAO Hmmmmm. So now I (and other law-abiding and responsible gun owners) am/are the reason the bad guys get hold of them and commit crimes? Ohhhh-Kay...
Word to the wise? The boys in the white smocks and nets are out there...
Seriously, there is no way to reply to all this ranting and raving and, yes, paranoia. Actually, naivety.
Regardless, if you seriously believe all that drivel, then there is not much more to say. Give my regards to the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny, will you?...
I don't know about you, but I can certainly picture a kid(s) stealing a gun from a teacher. I used to be a teacher, and I think this is a horrible idea. This doesn't prevent anything either, if a Columbine were to happen, the shooter just knows where to aim first now.
You have a very valid point. And I spent almost 7 years dealing with the worst behavior problem high school kids in the district, and a high percentage were violent offenders. So yeah, that scenario is a possibility.
However, it is a matter of trade-offs, so to speak. And the use of some common-sense. Personally, I am not sure I would carry even if our district allowed it. But if I did? I would probably just keep some compact weapon in a locked drawer in the remote case it was ever needed. Not even tell the kids about it.
Think on this two though, Odin. You are correct that the shooter would know just where to aim. So wouldn't it be logical they take out the cop/security guard first? The ones who are responsible for protecting all of us? Then what..?
Excellent post and right on the money. I actually have no problem having teachers who have completed their training for a CCW carry discretely for exactly the purpose you discribe. This should be permitted. What I don't agree with is if it were a mandate that teachers carry in schools. This would cross the line as to the function of a teacher, IMO.
I absolutely agree with you here, MoHawkx. But contrary to what the earlier poster said, there is no such mandate, nor even any idea of one, anywhere in the country. As you say, to require teachers to carry would be ludicrous and dangerous. I don't know where that earlier poster came up with that stuff...
You have a very valid point. And I spent almost 7 years dealing with the worst behavior problem high school kids in the district, and a high percentage were violent offenders. So yeah, that scenario is a possibility.
However, it is a matter of trade-offs, so to speak. And the use of some common-sense. Personally, I am not sure I would carry even if our district allowed it. But if I did? I would probably just keep some compact weapon in a locked drawer in the remote case it was ever needed. Not even tell the kids about it.
Think on this two though, Odin. You are correct that the shooter would know just where to aim. So wouldn't it be logical they take out the cop/security guard first? The ones who are responsible for protecting all of us? Then what..?
Then its only another bullet to take out a a teacher. Not to mention, if you keep it in a lock box, there's plenty of time to get it out in which you're vulnerable.
The policy of allowing teachers to be armed simply doesn't make sense. Fear of armed teachers won't deter someone who would go into a school and start firing. We've discussed the possibility of students going for a gun the teacher has. If the gun is in a lock box, then the teacher better hope for time to get the key, unlock the box and get the gun. If the shooter is in the room, the teacher has no chance of getting the gun. If the shooter is wandering the halls, they can just shoot through the window thats in the door and the teacher is out of the way.
The potential risk for potential benefit simply doesn't add up to make it a logical policy.
Then its only another bullet to take out a cop/security guard. Not to mention, if you keep it in a lock box, there's plenty of time to get it out in which you're vulnerable.
The policy of allowing teachers to be armed simply doesn't make sense. Fear of armed teachers won't deter someone who would go into a school and start firing. We've discussed the possibility of students going for a gun the teacher has. If the gun is in a lock box, then the teacher better hope for time to get the key, unlock the box and get the gun.
Yes, as I said, it is going to be a matter of trade-offs.
But let's look at it from your angle...which is essentially that the body count between the time the professionals can arrive on the scene is worth the price that teachers (properly licenced and trained) should not be allowed to possess handguns. I don't know any other way to interpet it...
And you are wrong in that fear of armed teachers will not deter some nut from coming in and start shooting (or at least, mostly wrong). Why do you think that mass-shooters choose places like schools to rampage? The common-sense answer is that they know no one is likely to have the means to stop them. All these things usually occur in so-called "gun-free" zones.
It stands to a certain reason that, if it were broadcast that teachers (in whatever district) are now permitted to be armed (or at least have a weapon available) then the contemplating lunatic will probably choose another location to start shooting. They may have eventual suicide on their minds, but they want to kill as many innocents as possible first. If they knew ahead of time there would be at least a strong possibility they would be shot down before they racked up a total and went out in their "blaze of glory", they probably wouldn't choose a school where some teachers were armed.
Yes, the teacher better hope for the time to get the drawer unlocked (which is where I would keep mine if I carried), but at least there is that option.
Just on a related tangent, some teachers I know who teach in "high-risk" areas (such as I do) carry pepper spray (the type anybody can possess). So that alone might permit the time to get to the weapon. But even if not, the overall cost/benefit ratio of allowing teachers the option outweighs (IMHO) that of that they might not be able to get to them in time, etc, etc.
Let's be honest...if some screwball, sociopath, is killing everyone in sight, then the situation is about as bad as it can get, anyway. ANYTHING is preferable, don't you agree?
Speaking as a parent/grandparent, myself...I know I would infinetly prefer that a teacher/administrator had the capablity to save them than the alternative of nothing at all. BTW -- even though the MSM didn't broadcast it, the shooting in Pearl, Mississippi was stopped because an assistant principal had a handgun in his car. He went out to retrieve it and stopped the killer. Along that line, I have a friend (ex-teacher) who taught at that school. She said she was hiding in a closet, praying, and wishing she had a gun. Who wouldn't?
What many republicans/conservatives don't realize is that most Liberals do not want guns taken away. We just want it harder for the crazies to get their hands on them. I am all for people carrying guns. I just want it harder for the unstable to get their hands on them. This is why I don't get why people call us "unamerican" How is it unamerican to care about people's lives? I think the liberals are the people's party. We look out for everyone while the repubs look out for the rich and religious.
What many republicans/conservatives don't realize is that most Liberals do not want guns taken away. We just want it harder for the crazies to get their hands on them. I am all for people carrying guns. I just want it harder for the unstable to get their hands on them. This is why I don't get why people call us "unamerican" How is it unamerican to care about people's lives? I think the liberals are the people's party. We look out for everyone while the repubs look out for the rich and religious.
Becasue, when you envoke all these rules the ("we") law abiding citizens have to pay for it...either through red tape or pure BS.
You know why a criminial is called a criminal...becasue they don't care about laws....
An insane person, can lie....that has been proven numerous times over....
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