If you were "upside down" on your mortgage, would you walk away? (party, retirement)
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Just get the government out, let the banks figure out how to collect from the deadbeats and how to stop lending to them, no new taxes for the responsible to provide the many bailouts.
The fedgov. has no business being involved that is true.
So you own your home outright but will lose 'thousands'?
You mean you didn't sell when the market was good and so now feel cheated and want to blame someone else.
I find it strange you cannot answer a simple question such as is a mortgage a business contract...perhaps because the answer doesn't suit you?
A mortgage is a business contract and so what makes the best business sense applies.
Seems good old Morgan Stanley thought 'walking away' from properties made good business sense for them....
The fact is I had other things going on at the time which precluded me from selling at the peak. And I do blame the losers who took out more than they could pay for, the banks, the realtors, and people like you who want to see them get a free pass.
Again, done with your constant repetitive questions you think are so tricky which have no bearing on the topic.
The fact is I had other things going on at the time which precluded me from selling at the peak. And I do blame the losers who took out more than they could pay for, the banks, the realtors, and people like you who want to see them get a free pass.
Again, done with your constant repetitive comments which have no bearing on the topic.
Again you made that decision,it was,in hindsight,the incorrect one to make.
You seem to feel the need to always blame someone or something else for what happens.
By the way,what 'free pass' are the people giving up their homes getting?
The topic is walking away from a mortgage by the way...
Another news article:
Quote:
"We're seeing a lot of these 'strategic defaults,' " said Ben Thypin, senior market analyst with Real Capital Analytics, a commercial real-estate research firm in New York. "Beacon could probably pay the mortgage, but the properties are worth less now, and they don't want to make payments based on outdated values."
Beacon has plenty of cash, said Sven Goldmanis, partner at Bellevue brokerage Regency Group. "But if they're paying the bills on time," he said, "then nobody's going to adjust anything."
Oh, gee, should I blame myself that the lending standards were loose, that people overbought, that realtors pushed mortgages on people who could not afford them? Just who do you think is responsible? It wasn't me who caused this crash.
And it's really NONE of your business as to why I did not sell at the peak. Furthermore, it's absurd to sit around and even pose the question. Gee, did I miss something in the news? "We are now at the peak, time to sell" was everywhere in the headlines. Do you honestly think if this information had been available people would have bought at the peak?
And don't you dare pretend that you had this special knowledge as it's quite evident in your posts that you would not be in the know.
And enough of this. You like to argue just to hear yourself talk. Welcome to my ignore list.
I didn't sell at the peak or refinance or get an ARM because I could see all along that the whole thing was nothing but a bubble that would not be sustained for long.
So here I am with my same house that I still make the payments for. I have not done any major remodeling, no expensive marble imported to put on my counters or floors. No expensive landscaping that I thought would make it worth a whole lot more when there's no evidence that does anything for the value. I'll probably not do any big remodeling until it's paid off.
And I never took out any loans against my house. None. Even though the lenders were throwing the applications at me, even calling me up on the phone. I'm a traditional kind of borrower. I put a sizeable down payment on my house and why would I risk it and my home itself for just some easy money?
I agree with you Vicket, but I am not quite as angry about those who just came on hard times (through a job loss or medical situation) and had bought within their means but just couldn't make the payments.
It's the people like the one quoted in post 33 who don't care about anyone else who tick me off. And the people who are into "strategic" defaults which is a fancy way of just saying what is - you've just decided since things have turned you may as well stiff the bank (and drag down the value of everyone else's house around you). And it's the people who took advantage of the loose lending standards and overbought and the bankers who gave them the money and the realtors who pushed them into the deal who really tick me off too.
Can't re[ you again, but I agree. I am not talking about people who have fallen behind through no fault of their own.
Oh, gee, should I blame myself that the lending standards were loose, that people overbought, that realtors pushed mortgages on people who could not afford them? Just who do you think is responsible? It wasn't me who caused this crash.
I would blame the lenders mainly,followed by the fedgov loosening standards and then the borrowers.
Quote:
And it's really NONE of your business as to why I did not sell at the peak. Furthermore, it's absurd to sit around and even pose the question. Gee, did I miss something in the news? "We are now at the peak, time to sell" was everywhere in the headlines. Do you honestly think if this information had been available people would have bought at the peak?
You feel the need to blame others that your home's value has gone down....
Quote:
And don't you dare pretend that you had this special knowledge as it's quite evident in your posts that you would not be in the know.
Again with the attacking,are you incapable of polite discussion?
Quote:
And enough of this. You like to argue just to hear yourself talk.
Discussion and debate requires actually replying to the other person.
So here I am with my same house that I still make the payments for. I have not done any major remodeling, no expensive marble imported to put on my counters or floors. No expensive landscaping that I thought would make it worth a whole lot more when there's no evidence that does anything for the value. I'll probably not do any big remodeling until it's paid off.
And I never took out any loans against my house. None. Even though the lenders were throwing the applications at me, even calling me up on the phone. I'm a traditional kind of borrower. I put a sizeable down payment on my house and why would I risk it and my home itself for just some easy money?
Then you haven't lost anything by what others have chosen to do....your home being worth less only matters if you need to sell it,up until that time it matters little.
Many homeowners in 2000 to 2007 had modest mortgages. When house values increased (the bubble) they refinanced, increasing their mortgage and took cash out.
When house prices fell (the burst) they found themselves owing more than the house was worth.
Sad, but they have a legal and moral obligation to pay.
I'm sure that scenario exists ... but I think it's far more the norm that people upgraded, turning the "created by the banks" equity into nicer homes.
But here's the deal .. and most people simply aren't aware of this fact. The entire real estate bubble was a scheme cooked up by the banks, and it's perhaps the greatest fraud in the history of the United States.
The real estate values have always been set by banks in the assessment and amount they are willing to loan for any given piece of property. It's a circumvention of the age old process of supply and demand ... it's a market manipulation .. similar to a pyramid scheme on a grand scale. And if you don't understand the scheme, you'd obviously wonder why banks would artificially drive up values, and loan way more money than a property is actually worth, particularly in those situations of ARM mortgages and such, which would be in the greatest risk of default. The natural assumption is that the banks actually want you to pay back the mortgage, and make good on the loan. But the reality is the exact opposite ... they want you to default, and the sooner, the better. Many refinancing schemes sold as mortgage relief were written to make it easier for the banks to foreclose than was the terms in the original mortgage. Why? It's simple .... they make way more money on the deal if you default. And here's how it works:
A bank finds a warm body to sign a promissory note (mortgage) on a property that THEY appraised at higher value than actual worth. The higher the value, the higher the mortgage. The bank then takes that mortgage as an asset (not a liability), and they package bunches of these mortgages into mortgage backed securities (MBS). They also have mortgage insurance on the loan, often hidden in the contract which the buyer pays. The bank sells those securities for cash up front ...OK ... but here's where the big fraud comes in .... they have been selling that same mortgage to multiple investors ... that's right .... BOA in one instance sold one 30 times ... but the average is between 5 and 8 times. So ... they sell this same mortgage ... say 5 times ... let's say at 50% of the note value ... that's 2 1/2 times the total value of the mortgage UP FRONT IN CASH. Now, the original lender keeps the deed on the property, while they take a portion of that up front cash, and divy it out to the investors .. and wait for you to default. You default, and they foreclose, and collect 80% of the mortgage value from the mortgage insurance. And then the cycle repeats.
One of the other schemes has been these mortgage assistance programs ... a homeowner who is current on their mortgage goes in ... and the lender says ..."the program only applies to people who are two months or more behind on their mortgage (wink, wink) ... so the homeowner goes away, and purposely falls behind in order to qualify for the program ... they submit their paper work ... and another month goes by (now they are 3 months behind) and the lender says ooops ... your application has been denied ... and they swoop in and foreclose. This has happened thousands of times.
So, there is no moral issue to consider here, unless you feel morally obligated to pay money to criminal thieves who are responsible for swindling Millions of people in this grand fraud. If it's in the best interests of the individual to walk away ... walk away. On the other hand ... there are remedies there as well if you get the right legal representation .. and almost every mortgage written in the last 10 years is filled with fraud, including undisclosed and illegal fees ... principle and interest "errors" ... fraudulently signed documents ... etc.
The principle and interest errors are a real sneaky one too .... and this has happened to countless people. Let's say you agree to terms on a home purchase ... down payment .. principle and interest. The documents are prepared, and at closing time you see an error. You thought you agreed to 150K at 6% ... but the paper work says 146K but the interest rate ended up 6.75% instead of 6%. The lender hands you $4,000 cash back from your down payment over payment, and they give the seller $4,000 difference in the sale price error .... (they said your mortgage would be around $900-950 in preliminary negotiations) ... so your mortgage ends up at $947 and you get 4K cash back and a lower sale price than originally agreed to ... hooray! Right? Wrong. At 6% and 150K your payment would be $900 ... at 146K and 6.75 your mortgage will be $947 ... that's $17,000 dollars over the term of 30 years, while you got back $4,000. The lender just made an additional $9,000 (after they pay the seller their $4k too), and few people will throw on the brakes and say stop ... as you are gathered around the table at closing ... dates are set for moving ... people are anxious to get done with the paper work etc. So they do it. The lender is giving you and the seller $4,000 each for "their mistake" .... and they pocket the $9,000.
You'd be surprised how many people will just go along ... and the cash back is the incentive ... a nice shiny check for $4,000 dollars that you can take home to your new home!!! And you've just been had.
**** the bank .... they'll certainly do it to you .. and chances are, they already have ... BIG TIME, since they artificially drove up the values of those homes by 25% or more already.
And they did that because they don't expect to be held to their first debt.
Yes, they will make out very nicely, getting themselves quite rich by never paying the first loan, leave the house to foreclosure while they sit in their much nicer house that will bring them a very nice profit when they go to sell it.
It's that kind of thing that needs to end. This young couple with excellent finances that simply walked away from their first loan should have that loan catch up with them, they should have a lien placed on their new big expensive house and be required to pay all the loans they signed.
I agree.
edit: Do you also think the banking CEOs, who gamed the system every bit as much as this young couple, should be required to pay for their theivery??
Last edited by ray1945; 07-03-2011 at 10:47 AM..
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