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Religion, in all of its forms, is essentially a philosophy that advocates willful ignorance. As such, it is a negative influence on our society and on our species as a whole. Religion was developed as a coping mechanism for ignorant and uneducated people to explain what they could not understand through rational thought and logic. We have progressed beyond that stage, and religion is now nothing more than a collection of philosophies that espouse intolerance and exclusion. It is long past time that we cease to accept and tolerate religion and start actively working to eradicate it. That's why I don't want to have to sit through a prayer.
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Originally Posted by talkispoison
I tried to make it as simple as possible so even children that believe in fairy tales can understand
This is basically the atheist equivalent of the old lady with the brochure coming up to you in the mall saying "Do you know Jesus?"
We have freedom to not have GOVERNMENT endorse a religion.
Don't like it? Feel free to leave this country.
This is so stupid I should not bother to comment, but I guess you don't really know much about what the constitution says on the subject, eh?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Praying at a public event is hardly establishing a religion, which would be more like creating a Church of the United States, or something, which has not and will not happen. Moderator cut: off topic/personal
You asked why I thought one of your points was backwards. In my eyes, non-progressive behavior and stagnation is backwards.
Fair enough. But in my eyes, most of those who claim to be "progressive" are usually backward as hell in their own way. They can't see the forest for the trees. And can't look up at the billions of stars on a warm soft Texas/Southern summer night and be able to postulate a Creator of the wonder of it all.
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By being alive, I've obviously been exposed to lines of thinking that are not in line with mine. I find them to be fascinating, as they promote discussion and growth.
We agree, here.
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However, this isn't a matter of someone's feelings getting hurt. It's not up to the schools or local events to guide my (future) childrens' thoughts about religion -- that's MY job.
Yes, it is your job to teach your children (or grandchildren, etc). It is not your job to tell mine that there is NOT a God or they have no right to participate in voluntary prayer.
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I was hoping that I wouldn't have to pull this into the discussion, but it's a comparison that works. Slavery was a tradition. Women as second class citizens was a tradition. Hazing prospective members prior to initiation into groups was a tradition. Were these long-standing? Yes. Does that make them "good" and "working" solutions? Of course not.
No, it isn't a good comparisson, because it starts from the present and works backward rather than the past working forward. So, in a sense, you are actually contradicting your own concept of being "progressive".
I guess I can never understand such an arrogant and pious mindset that presumes to measure our ancestors morals by the standards of today. I know it might not be politically correct to say it, but if slavery had never existed in the United States? Then many black Americans might well still live in nations on the African contenient that have an appalling history of human rights violations and where slavery still exists today.
Ok, what about denying Native Americans the right to vote at first? Far as I know they didn't allow white guys to vote at their tribal meetings either. LOL
But alright, let's just say our forefathers (not possessed with your latter day wisdom and how things should have been) had given Indians the full right to vote? And what if they voted all the Europeans (men and women) get back on their ship and sail back to the Old Country?
Do you see where I am going with this? Things have to take their own time to eventually work. And really, hey, if one feels so guilty about what happened to the American Indians? Then sign over the title to "your" own house to one of them, and go live on the reservation in their stead. If someone feels guilty, then dont talk about it...do something about it!
This is so stupid I should not bother to comment, but I guess you don't really know much about what the constitution says on the subject, eh?
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Praying at a public event is hardly establishing a religion, which would be more like creating a Church of the United States, or something, which has not and will not happen. If you want to prohibit hundreds of thousands of Americans from exercising their right to practice their religion, then really, you are the one who should get the heck out.
It's not just "praying at a public event". It's state sanctioned prayer. That makes it unconstitutional.
You can pray on your own, that's not illegal in any way.
I wasn't really clear with my post, but what I meant to say is that in my experience, observers of other religions aren't the ones who are offended, it's only atheists.
Even though we are a secular society in name, there is a strong Judeo-Christian history here, and Christianity is the predominant religion. I'm not condoning it, and I'm not saying it's right, but it's inevitable that certain elements of religion are going to make their way into public ceremonies. Those of other faiths understand and respect that. I know that if I go to a country that is mostly Muslim (let's say Turkey, since they are heavily Muslim and not a theocracy), then I can reasonably expect that the Islamic faith is going to be brought up in large public gatherings. If I go to Thailand, then I can expect Buddhism will play a role in the government. No one is trying to force their religion on me, even if their practice of it can be ostentatious.
It's only atheists that get so upset and pouty about little things like this.
Kind of like how only gun nuts get "upset and pouty" about little things like the right to bear arms?
It doesn't matter if you think people who give a **** about the Constitution and secular western values are "upset and pouty". The law trumps your lack of regard for it.
Why are we constantly bending to satisfy every "offended" soul who declares themselves such?
There was a point in time I might have sympathized a bit with those who objected to prayers at football games or whatever, but the more time went on the more I see it for what it really is. That is, a sect out there who want to ban every Christian symbol. Not so much it really offends them, but because they just have a deep-seated hatred of Chrisitanity. The Pledge of Alligience is next, and so is the "In God We Trust".
Here is what Christians should do at football games and/or classrooms and/or whatever, is pray anyway. Start a spontaneous recitation of The Lord's Prayer. Those who don't like it can leave the bleachers or not participate.
I suppose if your god is so shallow and stupid he cares about a foortball game or a car race and can't hear your prayers anywhere else you should pray...
BUT, PUBLIC schools are just that..they belong to ALL taxpayers and not just christian taxpayers. Religion does not belong there or at the graduation ceremonies...
Funny how a person's religious beliefs can be so weak they need "god" on their money....
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