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Old 08-03-2011, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,301,323 times
Reputation: 4269

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Sure. Rightwing, antigovernment ideology is all about belief, not reasoning. We are being fleeced by our own companies, and we have decided that government is the villian. Government is intended to serve. It inefficient, but it does many things that matter and that make our lives better. All civilized countries have a public sector that does all kinds of things. The private sector (or at least the largest companies) have largely abandoned us during this recession, yet hard right people argue as if the only legitimate enterprise is private.
I think I bolded some words about religion. Maybe you didn't mean to type those words.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:13 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 12,001,405 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
The problem is not the work, or even finding the people to do the work. The problem is getting the people in MANAGEMENT to shut up long enough to actually DO something instead of talking about it endlessly.

Part of the problem in this country is that in COLLEGE nobody learns how to do anything except THEORIZE. When it comes to implementing programs, nobody knows how to do anything except talk.

And then, of course, there are the rules, and regulations and laws governing ecology that have to be "considered". You can't just build a road anymore without doing a 6 month study how it will affect the surrounding flora and fauna, and weather it will cause acid rain, or global warming.

It's so frustrating.

20yrsinBranson

In other words too much red tape, and bureacracy!
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,301,323 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
Well, I wrote a letter to Obama just last week (as promised) about not increasing regulations at EPA until we get out of this mess. So, I see your beef. That said, I don't know the issues and the environmental compliance issues at hand in that case. And I think pulling the plug on the EPA as a whole is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
That baby must go since all they are there for, right now, is to enforce that thing Obama couldn't get through the Congress. You know Cap and Trade? All they are doing now is making sure that we will be short on electricity, nationwide, by stopping any coal fired generators. I would think that you know that ten or more giant generators have been shut down because the companies that run them just can't afford to meet new standards from the EPA.

I say that we will be forced into many things because of regulations from EPA that not many of us will like once we see what they are doing. Hot damn, look out here comes Agenda 21.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,301,323 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Probably a good thing. We all need clean air.




So why not abandon the Coal, Coal, gotta burn Coal plant and go with Renewable?



ummm, the EPA was a Nixon era agency.

They first got bag-houses on the Coal plants to keep the particulates down, and then scrubbers to keep the Sulfur / Acid Rain down, now Hg, and some day soon, less and less Coal. Good things, all-in-all.

But Natural Gas and Renewables are beating Coal out of the market, anyway.

So why do you want more of the last century's dying "technology?"

If we can even call burning Coal a "technology?"



It is a little bit more about the people of tomorrow. Kids, yunno. If you can get out the Me, Me, Me, it is all about Me mindset, you may be able to consider that.

But again, why not have those 2000 folks building Renewable Energy plants?
Which of your renewables are you so proud of? How about wind power? We have had a number of those places constructed in Kansas the past 3 or 4 years but learned the hard way that we don't have the transmission facilities to get the power to the people who want it. The plant I talk about is in the west and is to provide power for Colorado. The worst part of it all is that the company they have strangled owns all the transmission lines in the area and they refused to build any new ones without the coal powered plants. Oh goody you say but the new lines were to serve 14 new windpower farms in the northwest part of our state. Not so good, I say, since the renewables have never been built because they couldn't sell all of their power locally.

I think this is enough of an example for you to understand that there is a whole lot more involved here than all that pollution.

What renewable resources are taking anything away from the coal users? I guess I failed to see that going on since the per cent of coal fired electricity doesn't seem to be dropping. I think that you warmers will have to get with the program someday and hope it isn't after we don't have enough electricity to keep the EPA offices warm or cool.

Whoops, I forgot to ask you which renewables you are so sure can handle the problem in the next few years. I think that you have to know a lot more about the real situation than I think you do but maybe you do know a lot more than I think. Please tell me what those renewables are going to be in the next 25 years. Our population may have a real decline without cooling and heating that are very dependent on electricity these days. Maybe we will need to keep enough people alive to have to worry about the coming generations
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:32 AM
 
48,502 posts, read 96,918,474 times
Reputation: 18305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
You are forgetting your talking points again. Investing in America is socialism!

Really, all bridges and roads should be built by privateers and should be toll roads. Clean water? Sure just pay a company to keep your river clean. Clean air? How about a business for that too. Nuclear inspectors? Nope, we need that to all be privatize to get rid of all that government waste. National Parks? Nah, that is boring. You need Epcot Everglades-The Ultimate Experience (TM)!
The problem as we saw with teh stimulus is little of that spent went to infrastructure. Most highest part went to salaries of politcally connecte4d governamnt worker groups. States ans local governamnt are too use to the fedewral paork and will build anyhting that they can get grants foir.Those days are gone and local and state goveramnt is goig to have to do more and get taxpayrs locally to apporve paying for more of the past grant projects. Who do you think does most large projects ;private contractors is who.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Sarasota FL
6,864 posts, read 12,089,946 times
Reputation: 6744
Can someone give me the article #/section of the U.S. Constitution where it says- The U.S. government will be responsible for creating jobs. To accomplish this task, taxes being paid by people who actually pay taxes will be diverted to make work shovel ready jobs.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:11 AM
 
19,226 posts, read 15,335,661 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4g4m View Post
Can someone give me the article #/section of the U.S. Constitution where it says- The U.S. government will be responsible for creating jobs. To accomplish this task, taxes being paid by people who actually pay taxes will be diverted to make work shovel ready jobs.
I don't thing Hitler employed anything as fake as a tax system on his country to create jobs.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:17 AM
 
1,457 posts, read 2,029,308 times
Reputation: 1407
Only 7% of stimulus was spent on infrastructure.

The rest went to wallstreet and auto maker unions for future votes no doubt...Ask Wallstreet and the UAW union where the shovel ready jobs are at...
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:32 AM
 
Location: SC
9,101 posts, read 16,469,818 times
Reputation: 3621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
This sounds like religion to me, not reasoning. Look around you. Are there any dams or hydroelectic facilities? Levees? Highways? Railroads? Airports? All are provided by government investment, and I would suspect you use most of them for free. And people were employed in your area to build them. It is the reality all around the world, except here. But we undertax our wealthiest citizens so they can buy politicians, play parlor games on Wall Street, and we keep hoping they will do things for us out of thankfulness. It is like waiting for the rapture.
How were the railroads built back in the day? They were built by the private sector.

There are plenty of private roads and private airports. The government-- especially the FEDERAL government does not have a corner on building all infrastructure. The airports could be bought out by the airlines. You get the idea. That would end taxpayers having to pay for these things. We can pay when we actually USE an airport by flyinf in and out of one.
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,827,375 times
Reputation: 24863
Up here in NH a whole lot of existing roads were repaved with stimulus money and a section of commuter alley (I-93) is being widened. They are even building a new bridge to the airport. In the first case the pothole and frost heave lobbies were very upset by the reduction of damage to car suspensions hurt their businesses and in the latter the mass transit guys were annoyed that we didn’t extend the rail system from Massachusetts.

I would rather see government money spent in our country than wasted in foreign wars. Building roads and schools in Afghanistan. Why bother?

The railroads were built using government eminent domain takings along with monopolies on freight and Mail. The vaunted private sector made out because the government guaranteed them business. Hell, the Federal government didn’t pay the American Indians a dime for taking their land for the transcontinental railroad. If the airlines owned the airports and sports teams the stadiums the users could not afford either.
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