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You are citing legal absolutism but the Constitution's protections are not absolute. While the First Amendment protects freedom of speech, it does not absolve one of slander or liable. While the Fourth Amendment says that the government needs a warrant for a search, if there is probable cause to search, a warrant is not required.
What interpretations of the constitution try to uphold is a sense of reasonableness. If an American citizen is in league with al Qaeda, plotting to kill other Americans -- and is beyond the reach of apprehension, it is certainly reasonable to take him out with a Predator's Hellfire missile.
Oh, the 4th Amendment isn't limited to "citizens." The exact wording is "The right of the people to be secure in their persons..." That would mean that the U.S. wasn't justified killing bin Laden, something just about everyone is cool with.
So if the government claimed you were a terrorist on your trip to Europe then it would be legal for them to kill you? .....Bizarre that you give the government that much power.
What interpretations of the constitution try to uphold is a sense of reasonableness. If an American citizen is in league with al Qaeda, plotting to kill other Americans -- and is beyond the reach of apprehension, it is certainly reasonable to take him out with a Predator's Hellfire missile.
We live in an age of patsies and false flags and international trespass.
If a terrorist is protected by the Bill of Rights, as you assert, then the killing of any terrorist is unconstitutional by your reasoning. If that is the case then the citizenship of the terrorist is irrelevant.
"Clear and present danger" is not just the title to a movie. It is a principle of both law and human civilization, that defines the boundary of lethal force. It can't be thrown out just because you are miffed or need closure to restore your fragile sanity..
Every person who is not at the moment engaged in a criminal act is entitled to due process. According to standard police procedure, lethal force is only justified to prevent or curtail an impending criminal act or one in progress, in which public safety is at immediate risk.
That is exactly the nature of the constitutional protection of due process.
The police in your community do not have the right to shoot down in cold blood every person who is associated with a suspect in a prior crime or with persons who might intend to commit a crime or hve knowledge about any impending crimes.
The mere fact that you assign the name "terrorist" to an individual does not make him one, particularly if the designation of terrorist is based solely on guilt by association.
Furthermore, every person associated with Al Qaeda is not necessarily a "terrorist", any more so than was every person associated with the Communist Party necessarily a participant in overthrowing the US government by violent means.
Your McCarthyist position on terrorism and Al Qaeda is a much greater danger to the USA than Al Qaeda itself.
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Originally Posted by Jermaine88
Wasn't the guy a terrorist plotting against the US? What's the issue? Anybody plotting against the country should be destroyed, American or Not.
You need to be a little more specific about what you mean by "plotting against the US". It is never against the law in the USA to "plot" a crime, unless the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you, as an individual plotter, have the intent, the means, and the potential to actually carry out the crime, and had made some actual, concrete preparations to be an active participant in carrying it out.
It stops with the Congress who in 2001 authorized the President to:
to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
And, now 10 years later, isn't it SAD that both parties (Republican
AND Democratic) are actually in agreement with this, and they STILL think
they are two different parties Ron Paul 2012 Official Campaign Website
This is a funny thread.
People who were ranting that the Casey trial should have ended in the death penalty after due process are complaining about this.
So if the government claimed you were a terrorist on your trip to Europe then it would be legal for them to kill you? .....Bizarre that you give the government that much power.
Some may not like the authority, but as far as I know, the 2001 act is still Law. Does it need to be changed? It does seem it could be abused, but I don't think that it has, ...., yet. Oversight of it's use may well be prudent.
So if the government claimed you were a terrorist on your trip to Europe then it would be legal for them to kill you? .....Bizarre that you give the government that much power.
I look at this the same way I look at a police sniper shooting a hostage taker. You can't possibly be arguing that the hostage taker must first be convicted in a court of law before the police sniper can pull the trigger.
Wasn't the guy a terrorist plotting against the US? What's the issue? Anybody plotting against the country should be destroyed, American or Not.
When Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and Donnie plotted against the U.S., and were protected by a power greater than the Constitution, I kinda don't see your stand.
Lorry, whenever a government erodes the rights of its citizens it is on the pretext that it is justified in a time of war or some other crisis. Actions set precedents. Yes, by all accounts, this guy looks like someone who deserved death. However, he was a U.S. citizen. So now, we have the armed forces being used to kill a U.S. citizen without due process.
Ridiculous statement...you must be a lawyer or have learned the complete disingenuous "spin" (for being nice sake) of the legal profession. This evil man was not an "individual" acting alone...he was an integral part of an evil and radical terrorist group attacking and killing people around the world, the U.S. included! That changes the picture completely!
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The next time, it will probably be a guy who really appears to deserve death too. But this guy may be living in Chicago. Where does it stop?
Our forefathers lived in a society that recognized the basic rights of citizens. However, due to extentuating circumstances (a war of all things... the French and Indian war), the government was taking advantage of its citizens. They established a Constitution to keep tyranny at bay.
And...have practiced the very same protection under the Constitution for all citizens when at war as was just accomplished in Yemen since the Constitution was adopted and the Revolution won!
Tell me, if an American citizen were on the border of Iran aiming a rocket-propelled nuclear bomb at New York with his finger on the trigger would you advocate taking the time to arrest him, read his Moranda rights and bring him back to the U.S. to give him a trial? It couldn't be in New York since the bomb would have obliterated that area along with thousands of people. Or would you have had Special Ops Troops/CIA/etc., watching him and kill him before he pulled the trigger.
We are currently fighting a war for survival like no other in our past history! Remember, these terrorists have declared time and time again that their mission is to kill every human on earth that will not bow down to their radicalization of the Koran! It doesn't matter who killed this horrible man...he was a commander (if you will) and planner of raining down horror and death all over the world...not just America.
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We're allowing this Constitution to be trampled on. For several decades now, we have allowed our presidents to go to war without congressional approval. We see where that has gotten us. We now live in a state of prepetual war. Does anyone really think that we will ever not be at war? Regardless of which party is in power? This is what happens when a single person gets to decide if a nation goes to war or not. Wars aggrandize a king's power. It's just too tempting, and the reasons are too compelling, for a king not to declare war. (That's why this power was reserved for Congress.)
First, what President, aside from Obama, has gone to war without Congressional authority to do so SINCE this requirement was put in place...I remember when that happened! Do you? Remember, FDR "declared WAR" against Japan...not Congress! Should he have not done so immediately after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941?
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Now, we're allowing our "kings" (presidents) to decide which American citizens deserve death without a trial? Bad, bad precedent. Fast forward a few decades from now, and you're going to have a government that uses the armed forces to break down doors in places like Idaho and Mississippi to kill Americans who are supposedly a threat to the nation.
Since this has been going on since the creation of the United States, and your predictions have never come true, I believe the American basic humanity and way of life under our Constitution plus add our free elections, etc., etc., etc., guarantee we are not going to "devolved" into third-world country/mid evil and ignorant people, which I interpret your statements to say.
Sorry, but when America is attacked in any way, shape or form we the people must stand up and destroy the attackers...PERIOD! When some citizen of the U.S. holds a gun to your head you don't take the time to quote the Constitution to him regarding your rights or his rights. You take action to alleviate the threat or you die, most often the only choice is to kill him before he kills you no matter in what country the event takes place !
Ridiculous statement...you must be a lawyer or have learned the complete disingenuous "spin" (for being nice sake) of the legal profession. This evil man was not an "individual" acting alone...he was an integral part of an evil and radical terrorist group attacking and killing people around the world, the U.S. included! That changes the picture completely!
And...have practiced the very same protection under the Constitution for all citizens when at war as was just accomplished in Yemen since the Constitution was adopted and the Revolution won!
Tell me, if an American citizen were on the border of Iran aiming a rocket-propelled nuclear bomb at New York with his finger on the trigger would you advocate taking the time to arrest him, read his Moranda rights and bring him back to the U.S. to give him a trial? It couldn't be in New York since the bomb would have obliterated that area along with thousands of people. Or would you have had Special Ops Troops/CIA/etc., watching him and kill him before he pulled the trigger.
We are currently fighting a war for survival like no other in our past history! Remember, these terrorists have declared time and time again that their mission is to kill every human on earth that will not bow down to their radicalization of the Koran! It doesn't matter who killed this horrible man...he was a commander (if you will) and planner of raining down horror and death all over the world...not just America.
First, what President, aside from Obama, has gone to war without Congressional authority to do so SINCE this requirement was put in place...I remember when that happened! Do you? Remember, FDR "declared WAR" against Japan...not Congress! Should he have not done so immediately after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941?
Since this has been going on since the creation of the United States, and your predictions have never come true, I believe the American basic humanity and way of life under our Constitution plus add our free elections, etc., etc., etc., guarantee we are not going to "devolved" into third-world country/mid evil and ignorant people, which I interpret your statements to say.
Sorry, but when America is attacked in any way, shape or form we the people must stand up and destroy the attackers...PERIOD! When some citizen of the U.S. holds a gun to your head you don't take the time to quote the Constitution to him regarding your rights or his rights. You take action to alleviate the threat or you die, most often the only choice is to kill him before he kills you no matter in what country the event takes place !
When are we going to go back and finish the job in Viet Nam?
I hate loose ends, man.
Like, they can unravel, or something.
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