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TREASON. The ORIGINAL ANTI-AMERICANISM. DISLOYALTY TO THE UNION.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Don't know your history, do you?
The Articles of Confederation was the first governing document, or constitution, of the United States of America.
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Article summaries
Even though the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution were established by many of the same people, the two documents were very different. The original five paged Articles contained thirteen articles, a conclusion, and a signatory section. The following list contains short summaries of each of the thirteen articles.
1. Establishes the name of the confederation as "The United States of America" and says it is a "perpetual Union."
2. Asserts the precedence of the separate states over the confederation government, i.e. "Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated."
3. Establishes the United States as a league of states united ". . . for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them . . . ."
4. Establishes freedom of movement–anyone can pass freely between states, excluding "paupers, vagabonds, and fugitives from justice." All people are entitled to the rights established by the state into which he travels. If a crime is committed in one state and the perpetrator flees to another state, he will be extradited to and tried in the state in which the crime was committed.
5. Allocates one vote in the Congress of the Confederation (United States in Congress Assembled) to each state, which was entitled to a delegation of between two and seven members. Members of Congress were appointed by state legislatures; individuals could not serve more than three out of any six years.
6. Only the central government is allowed to conduct foreign relations and to declare war. No states may have navies or standing armies, or engage in war, without permission of Congress (although the state militias are encouraged).
7. When an army is raised for common defense, colonels and military ranks below colonel will be named by the state legislatures.
8. Expenditures by the United States will be paid by funds raised by state legislatures, and apportioned to the states based on the real property values of each.
9. Defines the rights of the central government: to declare war, to set weights and measures (including coins), and for Congress to serve as a final court for disputes between states.
10. Defines a Committee of the States to be a government when Congress is not in session.
11. Requires nine states to approve the admission of a new state into the confederacy; pre-approves Canada, if it applies for membership.
12. Reaffirms that the Confederation accepts war debt incurred by Congress before the articles.
13. Declares that the articles are perpetual, and can only be altered by approval of Congress with ratification by all the state legislatures.
The United States Constitution is the supreme law of the United States of America. It was adopted in its original form on September 17, 1787, by the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and later ratified by conventions in each state in the name of "the People."
The original 13 Colonials have SPECIAL status under the Treaty of Paris.
When the Revolutionary War was over and the Treaty of Paris was signed, this line was in there:
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Article 1:
His Brittanic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz., New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be free sovereign and independent states, that he treats with them as such, and for himself, his heirs, and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety, and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof.
So when South Carolina decided to secede from the Union they felt they had the right to do so based on the Treaty of Paris.
"ARTICLE 1. -- His Britannic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz: New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that he treats with them as such; and for himself, his heirs and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof."
[p9]
Thus were established the two great principles asserted by the Colonies, namely: the right of a State to govern itself; and the right of a people to abolish a Government when it becomes destructive of the ends for which it was instituted. And concurrent with the establishment of these principles, was the fact, that each Colony became and was recognized by the mother Country as a FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATE.
Now, did you know there are secessionist movements afoot even today?
The Articles of Confederation was the first governing document, or constitution, of the United States of America.
You're kidding, right?
What does the Articles of Confederation have to do with ANYTHING? They were REPLACED by the UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.
Nor does the "Treaty of Paris" signed and recognized by a British Monarch control over the CONSTITUTION, which is the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND.
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Originally Posted by southernlady5464
Now, did you know there are secessionist movements afoot even today?
The Middlebury Institute Notice the DATES on this website. Liz
Did you know Black Nationalists/Separatists want to create a "black nation" in the heart of the former Confederacy? I think they're a bunch of clowns every bit as much as any other "separatist" movement.
TREASON. The ORIGINAL ANTI-AMERICANISM. DISLOYALTY TO THE UNION.
Nothing more, nothing less.
*yawns* Refresh my memory, Southern brothers and sisters, was it on number 16, 19, 20 or 21, 24, that the issue of "treason" was addressed? Seems like it was turned into mincemeat by the words of no less than the individuals in charge of actually having to prove the case. Just for the heck of it, I think I will post the basics:
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Burke Davis, (no relation to Jeff Davis that I know of) in his book The Long Surrender on page 204, noted a quote by Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase, telling Edwin Stanton that "If you bring these leaders to trial, it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution, secession is not rebellion...His (Jeff Davis') capture was a mistake. His trial will be a greater one. We cannot convict him of treason." Burke Davis then continued on page 214, noting that a congressiona committee proposed a special court for Davis' trial, headed by Judge Franz Lieber. Davis wrote: "After studying more than 270,000 Confederate documents, seeking evidence against Davis, the court discouraged the War Department: 'Davis will be found not guilty,' Lieber reported 'and we shall stand there completely beaten'."
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And this is only ONE place where the documented exchange between Chase and Stanton appears.
Seem to me like if there is an accusation of "treason" in this day and age, then those who make it first need to go back in time and tell the powers that be they were wrong.
Now then, I think I will go enjoy a cold beer and oldies music and a nice Southern Saturday night! G' night, y'all!
Absolutely right TriMT7. It is treason, nothing more, nothing less.
I saw a Confederate Flag on a vehicle today, it's not uncommon. I do believe that many people use is to represent their racist views. They often say it's about their history or heritage, but I often find that these are mostly uneducated and lower income people who display the flag.
It reminds me of something that Dr. King said in a sermon concerning his time in a Birmingham jail. Dr. King said that while he was in prison, the local sheriff and other local folks were harrassing and ridiculing him for marching. The more he talked to them, the better he got to know them. Eventually, the topic of salaries arose.
Dr. King said that they were "bragging" about how much money they made. But in reality, he said that these people were among the working poor, but they were too ignorant to realize it. He said that he told them, "Based on your salary, you should be marching with us." These people were so ignorant, they didn't realize that they were victims in their own system. This is the leagacy of the South: I will cut off my nose to spite my face....and then wave a flag about it. Part II of that legacy: The nations most underperforming schools and large percentages of people below the poverty line.
If you spend all of your energy trying to hold someone else back....you're not making any progress either. Then, you spend all of your time doing things that are reactive instead of pro-active.
Examples Pro-active: Spend more money per student in lower income areas; educate the kids & give them more resources so they can benefit society. Re-active: Build bigger jails and lecture them about contributing to society.
Oh, nearly forgot, the war was not about slavery, but states' rights. Perhaps you know that and can't accept it, or else you're just as ignernt as so many other posters on this subject. Mind you, I am not a historian by any means of the word, but I do attempt to know what I'm yakking about before I put it in cyber-space.
Right. "States rights." And what, "state right" was the South MOST upset about the North trying to meddle in?
One speech by Robert E. Lee carping on about "States Rights" can't erase all the stumping behind the scenes of the underlying cause:
In what later came to be known as the Cornerstone Speech, C.S. Vice President Alexander Stephens, declared that the "cornerstone" of the new government "rest[ed] upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth". Four of the seceding states, the Deep South states of South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia, and Texas, issued formal declarations of causes, each of which identified the threat to slaveholders’ rights as the cause of, or a major cause of, secession; Georgia also claimed a general Federal policy of favoring Northern over Southern economic interests.
But maybe that little tidbit was left out of "Southern History for Dummies."
One speech by Robert E. Lee carping on about "States Rights" can't erase all the stumping behind the scenes of the underlying cause:
In what later came to be known as the Cornerstone Speech, C.S. Vice President Alexander Stephens, declared that the "cornerstone" of the new government "rest[ed] upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth". Four of the seceding states, the Deep South states of South Carolina, Mississippi, Georgia, and Texas, issued formal declarations of causes, each of which identified the threat to slaveholders’ rights as the cause of, or a major cause of, secession; Georgia also claimed a general Federal policy of favoring Northern over Southern economic interests.
I DID say a minute ago I was going to hit the sack and enjoy a nice Southern evening. And I REALLY am. BUT, since I am still up, let me just leave you with this one, in exchanging quotes:
I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races--that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together in terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
--Abraham Lincoln.
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Originally Posted by TriMT7
But maybe that little tidbit was left out of "Southern History for Dummies."
Of course, maybe THAT little tibit might have been left out of "The Guide To Historical Hypocricy, by Seymour Butts
TexasReb, yep great quote to bring back to him but you are right about the "The Guide To Historical Hypocricy", by Seymour Butts. Some will never learn.
I am outa here because it is not worth wasting my time over such as some of these in here.
If you would read your own post you would find that Robert E. Lee never spoke those words. It was Alexander Stephens.
Oh, I'm sorry. Where, again, did I say Robert E. Lee was the one who said those words?
I said that while Robert E. Lee played lip service to "States Rightsm," the real reason was revealed behind the scenes. I didn't mention AT ALL that it was Lee himself OR his own Vice President, (and countless "others") preaching (literally, in some cases, by "preachers") the cause of secession used racism and slavery to rally the troops.
You self-congratulate too fast.
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races--that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together in terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together, there must be the position of superior and inferior. I am as much as any other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
--Abraham Lincoln.
And what does this prove? Did Abraham Lincoln fight a war to entrench his racist points of view? One can be a racist bastard without being pro-slavery, ya know. Maybe the distinction eludes you.
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Originally Posted by TexasReb
Now then, g'nght y'all.
HAHAHAHA. Is that supposed to be some sort of affirmation of Southern Pride, or annoy me? Give me a break. I grew up in the South, and lived for a while in the TRUE deep south. Not some Republica de Tejas version of "Southern!"
Last edited by TriMT7; 09-29-2007 at 07:52 PM..
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