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I would imagine if they are going to do things the VW way they will have to be.
35K a year average? I make that myself by memorial day (I'm union) and that's not including OT. And my company makes a ton of money. Again, those people need to be educated.
I'm in SE Michigan. I've lived here almost all of my life. Many of my older relatives have retired from the big three with generous pensions. It is this expense, courtesy of the UAW, that has made our union state an economic dead zone. No one comes here to build a new factory. In fact, in order to keep what is still here from leaving, a two-tiered wage and benefits scheme was put in place in which new UAW employees make perhaps a half of what new union members used to make.
It's really simple. You can sheer a sheep many many times, or you can slaughter it once. Unions in America will gut the sheep every time. This is because the larger economy doesn't concern them. If the cost of doing business is too high in union states, their solution is to force unions on people in other states who don't want them and sue to keep industries from relocating to non-union states, but this just makes doing business in China all the more practical.
You may personally benefit from union membership, but someone pays the cost somewhere else. You can be sure of that. I see empty factories all over SE Michigan. This is in large part due to union greed forcing them to relocate or go out of business. The people who pay the price for this union greed are young, low-skill workers who had a safety net in decades past.
I don't hate union workers, I despise the thought of being forced to join a union to work somewhere. I should have a choice whether I wish to join the union or not.
Being forced to join a union and pay them to work somewhere is wrong.
So you are in favor of essentially killing the union then? Hey, I respect that if that's what you believe. But to think that you can do my job and be non-union is just crazy.
I am lucky simply because of when I was born. The generations of workers before me blazed the trail and made it possible for me to have a good life and be paid a fair wage for what I do. I haven't had to go on strike or worse to keep my job. I realize that every day I work here. Many do not, many do take it for granted and those are the ones who give unions a bad name IMO.
But overall, the union is good for the company and the workers. We have a 2 year apprenticeship we have to serve before we can become Journeymen and trusted to do our jobs. You have to take all the training and be checked off by Journeymen who agree that you are proficient at your job. If it wasn't for the union, some ladder climber in the company would have killed the apprenticeship program years ago. But the union protects the company from their own bad decisions. Well trained workers have bailed them out so many times.
So if non union is so great, why is VW doing so well?
They pay less in taxes than US automakers.
In addition to paying less in taxes than US automakers, VW is subsidized -- bailed out -- continuously --- by the German government.
".....nearly 80 percent of Germans would prefer to be homeowners rather than renters."
The fact that you didn't know that proves you don't have a clue. In typical ******* fashion, you're trying to compare oranges with space-ships.
It doesn't work.
Also, I would mention that VW manufactures something that people actually need.
Did you ever stop to consider that? Nope. Now you have something new to think about. VW makes autos that use diesel. How many cars do US automakers make that use diesel? VW also makes cars people can afford and which are good on gas mileage. Just because it is vogue and chic to drive around in the US in car bigger than the homes of most people on Earth, it doesn't logically follow that people in other countries have a desire to do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
VW could easily pay those workers $40 per hour and make a ton of money.
Prove it. Show us the math. We'll all wait with great anticip-p-p-pation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
And Chattanooga would be much better off with a thriving middle class. $15 per hour is starvation wages.
Says who, you? You, who doesn't even understand that sometimes $800 is greater than $3,000? Yeah right.
When you finally get it through your thick skull that some people are living a Middle Class life-style on minimum wage, then you'll figure out that $15 isn't "necessarily starvation wages."
Economically...
But to think that you can do my job and be non-union is just crazy.
I suppose you must mean that unless you are a union electrician in your area, you will not get hired due to the politics of the situation? You are not insinuating that talent and union membership are the same thing right? I am in a RTW state, and our electrical services are handled just fine without a union.
So you are in favor of essentially killing the union then? Hey, I respect that if that's what you believe. But to think that you can do my job and be non-union is just crazy.
I am lucky simply because of when I was born. The generations of workers before me blazed the trail and made it possible for me to have a good life and be paid a fair wage for what I do. I haven't had to go on strike or worse to keep my job. I realize that every day I work here. Many do not, many do take it for granted and those are the ones who give unions a bad name IMO.
But overall, the union is good for the company and the workers. We have a 2 year apprenticeship we have to serve before we can become Journeymen and trusted to do our jobs. You have to take all the training and be checked off by Journeymen who agree that you are proficient at your job. If it wasn't for the union, some ladder climber in the company would have killed the apprenticeship program years ago. But the union protects the company from their own bad decisions. Well trained workers have bailed them out so many times.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything about killing the union, some people require someone else to see to their needs. I don't, and I don't want to be forced into joining to work somewhere. i believe that you should have a choice, whether to join or not.
For some people, it is a good idea. For me, it is not.
While on active duty, my wife, in Groton ct, went to work for Caldors, a local dept store. She was working part time, about 15-25 hours a week. It was a closed shop, meaning she was required to join the union to work there. On the weeks she only worked 15 hours, 30% of her after tax wages went to union dues. That's just crazy. It's a freakin dept store, and they don't need a 2 year apprenticeship to learn how to work a cash register.
So, in all fairness, while in your industry, it may be the right thing, but it should not be a requirement, and never should someone be forced to join a union, just to work somewhere.
Wrong. Union people are blatantly stupid, blindly following the leader (steward). You're correct in that I don't hate the members personally, but as a whole, they collectively fall into the really, really low IQ bucket. And I have a real problem with stupid.
Some are some just want a job. Like you say if they had job skills that would translate to the private sector where they could negotiate their own salaries and benifits they would so they are under the thumb of the union leaders.
No one is forced? Is that why liberals oppose Right to Work state... Right to Work means you a choice to either join a union or not for the illiterate liberals...
I would hate unions less if they had any business sense. I don't possess a degree yet and even I have business sense.
I hate the union brats that work the grocery stores here. The profits for grocery stores are razor thin - even Target and Wal-Mart verify this - groceries don't have a high rate of return, period. Yet last year when the union that has employees at Vons, Ralph's and Albertson's was faced with the fact that those three companies wanted to have the workers pay for health insurance like the rest of us, the union brats, who have no business common sense at all threatened to strike. The amount the grocery stores wanted them to pay was laughable - like $20 a paycheck - far less than what most non-union people pay for health insurance. The companies wanted to pass on the costs because profits were not going up and consumers were not willing to pay more money. In fact it was reported in the news that Kroger would no longer be profiting in California if the costs were not passed on. At the same time, these unskilled, non-degree holding brats make far more money than I do ringing up groceries, bagging groceries and stocking shelves. It is BEYOND ridiculous. The employees of these stores do not live in the real world. They're coddled brats.
Even worse are the government unions. I used to live in Utah. When Utah went hard into the red, when more of its residents went on food stamps, when more children were becoming homeless, when UDOT was claiming that traffic on all state roads had dropped 15% due to less people working, when the wages of the average non-union worker in Utah dropped, the union brats demanded more money. From where I'd like to know, because THERE WAS NO MORE MONEY. I see the same thing here in California. The state has 10% unemployment, more people than ever panhandling, high gas prices, the government is in the red...but the union brats want MORE money. Even Jerry Brown has some of the stones the Utah legislature has by denying the greedy brats more money. WHERE is the extra money going to come from? THERE IS NO MORE. IT IS GONE. THERE IS NO MAGIC MONEY FAIRY, no money crapping unicorns.
From where exactly am I supposed to come up with the money to pay these coddled brats who do not live in reality? I've been laid off three times. I'm lucky to have found a full-time job. I know many who have not seen a raise in years and have seen their health insurance skyrocket. There are more people on food stamps than ever, more homes in foreclosure than ever, more homeless kids, but by god, I'm supposed to crap more money for spoiled union brats.
If the unions had any common sense and thought of those who pay their salaries I'd hate them less. And yes, hate is a strong word, but I hate stupid people, and unions seem to have a surplus of them. I'm highly doubtful the employees at Ralph's could survive a month at McDonald's!
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