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Old 04-18-2012, 11:44 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,975,497 times
Reputation: 7315

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
No they aren't. Different terms for the same thing: PULLING THE PLUG.
Congrats. Someone gets it. Imagine todays technology in the pre hospice era. What we'd be putting people through would be beyond cruel. Its hard to let people go one loves, but to have them exist in a state one knows they would not want to exist in, proves one does NOT love them. I have no idea how hospice medical staff can be so courageous, but I thank God they are. I cannot overstate my respect for them.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,758,413 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
Oh really? And how do you know "murdering" isn't going to be proven to be a "genetic" disorder in the next 100 years? Wouldn't that be "killing" an "innocent" person? Where do we draw the line in killing children? The only thing you're doing is putting your own view of morality all over everything.
I suggest you re read my response. I oppose the death penalty.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the killing children bit.

I have no line, killing innocent people is always wrong.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:45 PM
 
5,906 posts, read 5,738,565 times
Reputation: 4570
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Of course they are different. Once begun, certain procedures require a court order to discontinue absent a healthcare proxy or advanced directive.
Then tell me why it happens without court orders or advance directives in this country once a patient is medically deemed to be incapacitated and unable to give consent--without first establishing a proxy or advance directive.

I see this every day, mind you.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:46 PM
 
2,409 posts, read 3,042,207 times
Reputation: 2033
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
You'd be surprised how many family members, when told their loved one is clinically brain dead, refuse to stop ventilation and tube feeding. For far too many people, a heartbeat is all they factor in for 'quality of life'.

We have a serious problem confronting mortality, in this country especially.

Yeah it's pretty pathetic for such a so called "Christian" nation who believes so steadfastly in heaven and "God' to be so scared of death and dying.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:46 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,758,413 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
You'd be surprised how many family members, when told their loved one is clinically brain dead, refuse to stop ventilation and tube feeding. For far too many people, a heartbeat is all they factor in for 'quality of life'.

We have a serious problem confronting mortality, in this country especially.
That is an issue wholly unrelated to the one.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:47 PM
 
2,409 posts, read 3,042,207 times
Reputation: 2033
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
I suggest you re read my response. I oppose the death penalty.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the killing children bit.

I have no line, killing innocent people is always wrong.


And how do you define innocent? Do you believe in self defense?
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:47 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,975,497 times
Reputation: 7315
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
You'd be surprised how many family members, when told their loved one is clinically brain dead, refuse to stop ventilation and tube feeding. For far too many people, a heartbeat is all they factor in for 'quality of life'.

We have a serious problem confronting mortality, in this country especially.
We do. One of my fav high school courses at a Christian Brothers High School was Death and Dying. Teacher wanted us to visit Branford Hospice, but they were very new, and he could not pull that off. He did cover, in depth, the issue of who ones life was being prolonged for, and the selfishness involved in not letting go.

While I was visiting my best friend at the hospice, I thought about that course every day.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:49 PM
 
5,906 posts, read 5,738,565 times
Reputation: 4570
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
Yeah it's pretty pathetic for such a so called "Christian" nation who believes so steadfastly in heaven and "God' to be so scared of death and dying.
It's sad...for the patients.

The lucky ones, who have at least some warning that their condition will be rapidly deteriorating, have the chance to make their wishes known.

Still, and this confounds me, the family/next of kin has the right to completely disregard a patient's wishes.

Almost always, in cases of medical futility, it is the family who insist on artificially extending life. It is the height of disrespect and of selfishness, and at its core is pure denial.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Hoboken
19,890 posts, read 18,758,413 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
Then tell me why it happens without court orders or advance directives in this country once a patient is medically deemed to be incapacitated and unable to give consent--without first establishing a proxy or advance directive.

I see this every day, mind you.
Please tell me where you see this?
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:52 PM
 
5,906 posts, read 5,738,565 times
Reputation: 4570
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby View Post
Please tell me where you see this?
Inpatient medical records. I work for five facilities of a large hospital group, with the majority being geriatric cases.
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