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Your right and ... Well get ready, more are going overseas -> and taking their jobs with them.
oh and then of course people will WONDER WHY and we will hear.. NOT FAIR.
Seriously people, are you really that stupid??
No we're not, we are well aware of the rich kid and his "i'll take my ball and go home" threats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
I agree, let's eliminate all taxes, loopholes and social welfare programs and go to a flat consumption tax system for everyone.
And as a side note, how do billionaire's not pay their fair share today? They pay more in effective rates than any other income category in this country.
You wingnuts need to get your story straight, one of you is asking for a consumption tax and another one of you is telling us that the wealthy plan to leave this country... Why should ANYONE trust you people? Why would anyone bend to your latest give to the rich tax schemes.
You know, since the bottom 50% pay little to no taxes, anything those 400 pay is more.
Except the OP says otherwise. The bottom 50% actually pay MORE taxes then the top 400.
Fact is the top 400 earn more money than the bottom 400 but pay less taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz
I happened to catch this from Mark Levin the other day, found it striking, and decided to look it up on line when I got home. Mark Levin
Economist Mark J Perry found this interesting factoid. According to 2009 IRS data, the 400 top taxpayers in 2009 shelled out $16.1 billion, while the bottom 50% of taxpayers totaled $19.5 billion in taxes, or less than 25% more.
Something to cite next time someone claims that the rich don't pay their fair share in taxes.
Note also how inherently unstable this structure is. What happens if just a few of those 400 decide to take their money and go to some small offshore tax haven? Wouldn't it be more stable to have a much more broad-based structure instead of trying to drain so much dough from such a tiny group?
Last edited by buzzards27; 06-19-2012 at 08:13 AM..
I know we've done this before, you seem to like turning every tax thread into a discussion of your lame fair tax...
Consumption tax will never fly. You're dreaming. Why?
1) Consumption is not predictable, it can very greatly from year to year.
2) the wealthy always find ways around taxes, this one would be no different, black market, grey market, business exemption used for personal purchases, overseas purchases, whatever the latest work around they deploy... Leona's "we don't pay taxes, little people pay taxes" would still apply.
3) the tax burden would disportionally fall on the working poor. A billionaire pays the same price as the poor for most things, everyone pays the same price for toothbrushs and toilet paper, yet the true cost to the poor is much greater.
4) it is a tax on borrowed money which negatively impact the poor who live on borrowed money.
5) finally, the wealthy will just move off shore beyond the tax, earning their wealth tax free here and spending it in consumption tax free countries. Again, increasing the burden on those that cannot jet set around the world like the wealthy.
Take a look at how this conversation started before claiming that I 'turn every thread into a tax thread' champ. A billionaire buys significantly more goods/services/investments than the poor/middle class do, so they would pay more in taxes.
Also, you idea that the wealthy would find ways around taxes seems strange. Are you seriously suggesting that the poor/middle class don't do anything illegal? Are you honestly saying the only black markets that exist are for the wealthy?
A fair tax means everyone pays for the services they use. Not that those who are more successful prop up those who make less money. Whether the lower classes can afford taxes or not is not the government's problem, it is the problem of those who make less money to help themselves make more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt
When there are 4x as many jobseekers as there are jobs, the least skilled will starve, is that what you want?
Why don't people work to create jobs for themselves? Why do you want people to rely on government instead of their own abilities? It is not the government's role to create jobs for people. It is the person's job to create a job for him/herself.
Tell em to stop multiplying! Birth Control. hmm I wonder if the words are too big?
You are right we should push for more birth control, OPPs! the religious right is against that. I guess all of those unwanted pregnacies will be aborted so that folks can still get a piece of the American Dream...Damn! I forgot the right is against abortions as well. Well those women that got pregnant will have to "suck it up" and struggle to take care of that unwanted child, Oh snap! you just cut of welfare and healthcare for the children. I guess those poor and unwanted children will have to grow up and have to fend for themselves, hey with the cuts to public education maybe they can sweep streets for low wages and proably get some nice girl pregnant because sex ed was not available in their school. Well, that outsourced job that they once had cannot support a family so they gotta do whatever to help their family so a part-time life of crime might help until they get caught.
Thats it! the goal of the elite is to creat a prison state with full cheap labor (full employment) for those special (poor/minority) people
words mean things try reading next time I said, you turn every TAX THREAD into a discussion of your LAME FAIR TAX... Exactly, what you are now trying to do. This isn't a fair tax thread, but you have been injecting it into the tread. Talk about lame.
Quote:
every tax thread into a discussion of your lame fair tax...
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
The use of a good or service...
How so? Please explain.
Take a look at how this conversation started before claiming that I 'turn every thread into a tax thread' champ. A billionaire buys significantly more goods/services/investments than the poor/middle class do, so they would pay more in taxes.
Also, you idea that the wealthy would find ways around taxes seems strange. Are you seriously suggesting that the poor/middle class don't do anything illegal? Are you honestly saying the only black markets that exist are for the wealthy?
A fair tax means everyone pays for the services they use. Not that those who are more successful prop up those who make less money. Whether the lower classes can afford taxes or not is not the government's problem, it is the problem of those who make less money to help themselves make more.
Why don't people work to create jobs for themselves? Why do you want people to rely on government instead of their own abilities? It is not the government's role to create jobs for people. It is the person's job to create a job for him/herself.
Yes, the wealthy are experts at evading taxes and would quickly hire lawyers to create work around for the "fair tax", lol.
Notice that you avoid the argument that the wealthy would simple earn their tax free Income here while sinning themselves in consumption tax free zones they create around the world. Lol, you really think the user wealthy have ANY real alliance to anything but money?
I just think that it is rather interesting that those of you that have a secure piece (at least what you think is) of the American dream frown upon those who are not as fortunate and even go as far to assume that those who have not gotten those same breaks are lazy and do not want to work. Granted there are some, but the majority of those less fortunate really want to work and have the same hopes and dreams as the people that are blessed to be were they are now.
words mean things try reading next time I said, you turn every TAX THREAD into a discussion of your LAME FAIR TAX... Exactly, what you are now trying to do. This isn't a fair tax thread, but you have been injecting it into the tread. Talk about lame.
Notice that you avoid the argument that the wealthy would simple earn their tax free Income here while sinning themselves in consumption tax free zones they create around the world. Lol, you really think the user wealthy have ANY real alliance to anything but money?
How is a thread titled Top 400 taxpayers paid nearly as much as the bottom 50% not a valid forum for discussions of potential solutions to our fiscal and taxation issues?
So you think the lower classes are honest, hardworking people? No one who isn't wealthy cheats the system for extra money?
Good god the stupidity.
Answer me this, why should the lion's share of tax money fall to any one income class? Why shouldn't everyone pay equally for the government services they use?
How is a thread titled Top 400 taxpayers paid nearly as much as the bottom 50% not a valid forum for discussions of potential solutions to our fiscal and taxation issues?
Good god the stupidity.
It is a thread about income and tax inequality, not a thread to push bogus tax cuts for the wealthy. Read back a bit, it has been established that the top 400 pay less taxes than the bottom half of this country, but earn more than the bottom.
The stupidity is being exhibited by your lame tax scheme, it is completely unworkable, highly flawed, and NEVER going to exist on its own (careful what you wish for they might ADDED it to existing tax policy). Don Q., a person tilting at windmills is usually considered a fool.
You ask why ppl don't create their own jobs. I little history, in the pre industrial dayz workers learned trades, they produced things with the skills they spent years learning. They took raw materials and made finished products, doing all the tasks from start to finish.
In this post industrial revolution era jobs have become highly specialized and segmented. Someone doesn't build a computer today, they make a single component. The process has been broken down into thousands of exacting task and each worker does their job in complete isolation to the big picture. Someone that spends years "building" computers does not have the skills to build a computer. They have the skills to feed a machine or clean a part or to arrange a few parts on a bench.
When a worker spends years at repetitive tasks they are left with few transferable skill when they lose a job. A part hanger on an assembly line is not going to have the skills need to create a start up, make sale calls, negotiate with vendors, suppliers and customers. They learned a highly specialized job in a highly specialized world.
Now, YOU blame the worker for his inability to roll with the punches and layoffs. I will blame an industrial system that changed the way things are made, turned a tradesperson into a part hanger and then suddenly took the assembly line away. The industrialists created the "part hanger".
Gotta luv what corporations have done to America, creating thousands of Love Canal superfund sites and brown field wastelands that they leave for the taxpayers to clean up. They create a population of unskilled drones and kick them to the side of the road if they can save a few pennies with overseas labor. Then useful idiots float a let's not even tax the uber wealthy anymore scheme.... Stupid and lame.
It is a thread about income and tax inequality, not a thread to push bogus tax cuts for the wealthy. Read back a bit, it has been established that the top 400 pay less taxes than the bottom half of this country, but earn more than the bottom.
The stupidity is being exhibited by your lame tax scheme, it is completely unworkable, highly flawed, and NEVER going to exist on its own (careful what you wish for they might ADDED it to existing tax policy). Don Q., a person tilting at windmills is usually considered a fool.
You ask why ppl don't create their own jobs. I little history, in the pre industrial dayz workers learned trades, they produced things with the skills they spent years learning. They took raw materials and made finished products, doing all the tasks from start to finish.
In this post industrial revolution era jobs have become highly specialized and segmented. Someone doesn't build a computer today, they make a single component. The process has been broken down into thousands of exacting task and each worker does their job in complete isolation to the big picture. Someone that spends years "building" computers does not have the skills to build a computer. They have the skills to feed a machine or clean a part or to arrange a few parts on a bench.
When a worker spends years at repetitive tasks they are left with few transferable skill when they lose a job. A part hanger on an assembly line is not going to have the skills need to create a start up, make sale calls, negotiate with vendors, suppliers and customers. They learned a highly specialized job in a highly specialized world.
Now, YOU blame the worker for his inability to roll with the punches and layoffs. I will blame an industrial system that changed the way things are made, turned a tradesperson into a part hanger and then suddenly took the assembly line away. The industrialists created the "part hanger".
Gotta luv what corporations have done to America, creating thousands of Love Canal superfund sites and brown field wastelands that they leave for the taxpayers to clean up. They create a population of unskilled drones and kick them to the side of the road if they can save a few pennies with overseas labor. Then useful idiots float a let's not even tax the uber wealthy anymore scheme.... Stupid and lame.
So essentially you don't want tax equality, you want the wealthier people to pay a heavier portion of the taxes, right?
I absolutely blame the worker! If a person is stupid enough to work a repetitive job for years without planning for a way to gain transferable skills, then why shouldn't they be punished for their lack of planning? You seem to want to reward the kind of flat out laziness that a person demonstrates who wants to work the exact same job for years and years. The VAST majority of those who are well-off financially work extremely hard, never stop learning and never stop improving their skills. Suddenly you want to effectively punish that behavior. Don't blame the system for an individual's laziness.
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