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I said this earlier, but just exactly what is involved in being in the "international student" program at Columbia? It sounds like they're more flexible with that program than many other schools. I think some of the birthers out here think it gives students special advantages over US citizens--not true.
I've studied abroad twice--a year in high school, and a semester in college. My exchange program in college was structured a little differently for the semester abroad students, but they put us together for lots of activities with the international students who applied to attend all four years and complete their degree at that university. The one's I've seen are more social support programs--they help the students strengthen their language skills if they need it, they help them understand cultural differences so they'll fit in better, and they hold social activities so the students can get to know each other, make friends, and have a more normal college experience. The adviser they're assigned to, at least at first, is usually more sensitive to the challenges they might face as an international student. The students don't get a preference on admission, and they don't get special treatment in the classroom. I can see how a student who might be an American citizen, but grew up entirely in a country like Bangladesh or somewhere in Africa with missionary parents might benefit from a program like that (and I'm guessing that's why they keep an open mind about who is eligible) but it would be pointless for American kids who've lived primarily in the US for any period of time. Why would any kid who's lived in the United States need help understanding and assimilating into American culture--the goal of those programs?
I concur. I don't think there are any special advantages for international students over US citizens. I will say, though, that I do recall international students being asked to contribute some aspects of their personal backgrounds. For instance, in a discussion about apartheid, I remember a South African student discussing his personal experience and his hope to return to his country and help heal the wounds of apartheid. I remember the college asking international students to co-ordinate an International Day, where they served foods and wore clothing and played music that reflected their culture. I remember international students serving as escorts when speakers from their countries came to make presentations. This level of participation wasn't a requirement, but many international students did volunteer to do these things.
Applying as a foreign student is a 'hook.' As is being an URM (under-represented minority). Colleges that strive for diversity in admissions (and almost all do) give preference to both.
Applying as a student from Hawaii is a hook, too. Diversity doesn't just include students from different nations. Someone applying to the Ivy League schools from Arkansas has a hook, too. Striving for diversity doesn't just apply to admissions, they also want that student to succeed. And the student must meet the admission requirements as well. I've never come across an unqualified international student, though I've met some students in athletic programs who probably didn't meet the school's academic standards for admission.
Applying as a student from Hawaii is a hook, too. Diversity doesn't just include students from different nations. Someone applying to the Ivy League schools from Arkansas has a hook, too. Striving for diversity doesn't just apply to admissions, they also want that student to succeed. And the student must meet the admission requirements as well. I've never come across an unqualified international student, though I've met some students in athletic programs who probably didn't meet the school's academic standards for admission.
Yes. Applying as a foreign student is a hook. Students from Hawaii applying to Occidental probably wasn't all that rare given Occidental's location. Applying as a foreign student would have been a more distinguishing hook, and an URM foreign student is even more of a hook.
Yes. Applying as a foreign student is a hook. Students from Hawaii applying to Occidental probably wasn't all that rare given Occidental's location. Applying as a foreign student would have been a more distinguishing hook, and an URM foreign student is even more of a hook.
You are in no position to make any of those judgments.
YOU made the claim that colleges don't accept American citizens as international students.
YOU kept on offering up MIT's policy (current policy, I will point out), as proof of your assertion.
I rebutted your assertion by offering up Columbia's policy (which was much more en pointe than MIT's policy, since Obama actually attended Columbia). Therefore I proved that American colleges and universities determine their own policies regarding American citizens and international status. I gutted your assertion.
Then YOU tried to sidestep YOUR claim, first by demanding Columbia's policy when Obama attended, and by trying to say hat HistorianDude made the claim.
When you make an assertion--see the first sentence of my post, that is YOUR assertion--the burden to provide proof on the assertion falls on you. I made an assertion in direct opposition to yours, and I provided the proof of my assertion. Since I did so, and you did not, you lost the debate. That's how it works.
And your demand for Columbia's policy when Obama attended is nonsensical. You are the one arguing that as an American citizen that President Obama enrolled as an international student. YOU are making an assertion. It's YOUR responsibility to find the proof to support your assertion.
And I learned these rules in Argumentation, a philosophy course I took in college. I guess you might say it was one of those Marxist courses, huh?
Yes. Applying as a foreign student is a hook. Students from Hawaii applying to Occidental probably wasn't all that rare given Occidental's location. Applying as a foreign student would have been a more distinguishing hook, and an URM foreign student is even more of a hook.
Applying to Columbia as a student from Hawaii would have been a hook.
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