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Old 09-07-2012, 10:43 PM
 
15,764 posts, read 9,500,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Please post a link to the original courtroom transcript so we can all read the "full quote".
I was referring to the extended quote that SailorDave posted. Clearly that's not the full transcript - but it's even more - and even more damning (IMO) than what was posted in the OP.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,388 posts, read 20,021,539 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
I read your link and decided to post the judge's quote in it's entirety.

Bad things can happen in bars, Hatch told the victim, adding that other people might be more intoxicated than she was.
"If you wouldn't have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you," Hatch said.
Hatch told the victim and the defendant that no one would be happy with the sentence she gave, but that finding an appropriate sentence was her duty.
"I hope you look at what you've been through and try to take something positive out of it," Hatch said to the victim in court. "You learned a lesson about friendship and you learned a lesson about vulnerability."
Hatch said that the victim was not to blame in the case, but that all women must be vigilant against becoming victims.
"When you blame others, you give up your power to change," Hatch said that her mother used to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toosie View Post
IMO the full quote just makes it all worse. "victim not to blame - BUT" don't go out, don't look that way, don't be someone that sociopaths want to assault. Oh and don't point it out (blame) if you get yourself sexually assaulted? Please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Please post a link to the original courtroom transcript so we can all read the "full quote".
Quote:
Originally Posted by toosie View Post
I was referring to the extended quote that SailorDave posted. Clearly that's not the full transcript - but it's even more - and even more damning (IMO) than what was posted in the OP.



"If you wouldn't have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you,"

Isn't that a comma after "you"?

We have no idea about what was said after "you" except that it added information to the sentence that the quote did not include.

"I hope you look at what you've been through and try to take something positive out of it,"

Again the coma.

"You learned a lesson about friendship and you learned a lesson about vulnerability."

If this is one of the most damning statement by the judge, the rest must be pretty useless to the NBC hack who wrote the article.

At least it's a full sentence.

"When you blame others, you give up your power to change,"

Oh look!

Another coma and another incomplete statement presented as a complete sentence.


Of the four quotes listed above, which of them cannot be part of a positive statement to or about the complainant?



Don't be such a willing sheep.

Question everything.

The burden of proof is on the goofball who wrote the article.

Personally, I'm not convinced.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:11 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,095,343 times
Reputation: 12758
Default Use half a brain and figure it out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
A woman can go anywhere she wants,it doesn't mean a man has the right to touch her.
Geez......
I don't know what's wrong with going to a bar unescorted?(I personally don't know any woman who goes excorted to a bar).
Maybe we have some old farts above.
Stupid hurts, sometimes it kills. You and other women have the right to exercise your stupidity. Doing so just because you have a basic human right to display stupidity will not make you safe.

The best way to stay out of trouble is not to go to places where trouble is most likely to occur. DUH!
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:22 PM
 
7,541 posts, read 5,334,014 times
Reputation: 1833
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud View Post
This judge had to be having a bad day. I hope she doesn't preside over any other sexual assault cases.






Sex assault victim groped by off-duty cop wants apology from Arizona judge - U.S. News


Again, Arizona and its people are showing how out of touch they are with anything that has to do with "sex"

blame the victim in a sexaul assault
defining life begins at 2 weeks before conception.
legislaturers tried to redefine rape.

etc etc
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,388 posts, read 20,021,539 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
Again, Arizona and its people are showing how out of touch they are with anything that has to do with "sex"

blame the victim in a sexaul assault
defining life begins at 2 weeks before conception.
legislaturers tried to redefine rape.

etc etc

Have the original unedited transcripts for all that, or do we just take your, or some hack journalist's, word for it?
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:39 PM
 
7,541 posts, read 5,334,014 times
Reputation: 1833
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Have the original unedited transcripts for all that, or do we just take your, or some hack journalist's, word for it?
don't know until its release (or someone pay for it and posts the transcripts), but a judge should never have said "if you hadn't have been there" at any point.

its the same as:

you shouldn't have been there crossing the street at the crosswalk while it was green, because you never know when a car is going to run a red light and hit you, but that's the chance you take

or

you shouldn't have been sitting at home watching tV, because you never know when a home invasion is going to happen, but that's the chance you take.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:44 PM
 
7,541 posts, read 5,334,014 times
Reputation: 1833
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
"If you wouldn't have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you,"

Isn't that a comma after "you"?


etc....

OMg FAIL on your part. This is BASIC GRAMMAR when writing a quote for what someone is saying. Commas and punctuation marks always go on the inside;

Quotation Marks

Example:
"The ball fell from the tree," he said. "Though, Bessie the cat was still stuck in the branches."



"If you wouldn't have been there that night, none of this would have happened to you," Hatch said. <--- correct grammar. The comma is there to indicate a quote, that Hatch made.


"I hope you look at what you've been through and try to take something positive out of it," Hatch said to the victim in court. "You learned a lesson about friendship and you learned a lesson about vulnerability." <---- Correct grammar. A continuation of a paragraph and denotes that Hatch is the one being quoted as saying it.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:00 AM
 
8,648 posts, read 15,256,729 times
Reputation: 4567
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u View Post
A woman can go anywhere she wants,it doesn't mean a man has the right to touch her.
Geez......
I don't know what's wrong with going to a bar unescorted?(I personally don't know any woman who goes excorted to a bar).
Maybe we have some old farts above.
True to the bolded part ........but........I am a man and there are parts of Houston that I wont go into at night and lock my doors and have my gun close by when I have to pass thru during daylight...


A woman should always go bar hopping with friends and never alone, to go alone is just plain stupid on her part...
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,999,305 times
Reputation: 8620
Rape is rape, but an also equal statement is that you can put yourself in a situation where this kind of thing is significantly more likely.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:06 AM
 
10,452 posts, read 10,593,664 times
Reputation: 12532
But how far are you willing to take that logic? If someone is raped or abused in their own home by their spouse or family member, should they have not been in their house, or not slept with their spouse whom they trusted for a long time? And believe me, that kind of thing happens just as often, if not more often, than sexual assaults in bars and public areas. Why are we not holding the perpetrator responsible? We should be telling the people who commit violence to stop doing what they're doing. People should take action to reduce risk but no one should feel completely controlled by what could happen to them when because of what someone else could do. We're all responsible for our own actions, and that includes people who commit violence of any kind, including sexual violence. They should be held responsible for their actions, not the victims. Everyone should try to reduce risk, but no one is responsible or guilty for another person's actions.

In short, stop telling survivors what to do, what to wear, how to act, where to be, and start telling abusers and rapists to stop abusing and raping.
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