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[snip]Once again ...no ultimatums were issued here, the school was concerned enough to ask and they simply followed the advice they were given.
For what it's worth, it's my belief that she should have been allowed to read it as she wrote it; I see no violations. I also see that nobody was forced to do anything, they were asked and they complied. I think a lot of us have been in situations where we've been asked to do something, and we did it only to start thinking about it after the fact and get madder about it as time goes on. I suspect that most of the time if we voiced our concerns up front rather than afterward, it may not have been an issue at all.
I think the whole thing is "much ado about nothing" in any case since it obviously isn't the little girl who has a problem ...if it were, her parents could sue and probably win.
The prez of the school board said that because the students were a captive audience, "administrators had the right to remove the word "God."
Whether the child or her parents care, we don't know. This was a case where a few administrators were so afraid of being sued or offending anyone, they went berserk in their nutty interpretation of the religion clauses.
First of all, let's get one thing out in the open here. There is NO language and no use of the phrase "separation of church and state" in the United States Constitution. The premise of such separation is what exists, and it exists SOLELY in the form of a prohibition on the law making body of our country, Congress, in making a law that could be misconstrued as, or lead to, the official creation of a State Sponsored, State sanctioned, national religion. And it wasn't because the framers of our constitution were anti-religion ... it was simply a logical safeguard put in place to protect the freedom of religious expression of the people as they saw fit to practice or NOT practice religious ceremonies and traditions. They realized that should there be the creation of a national religion, that would likely lead to the infringement of that freedom of religious expression for all other forms not part of the state sanctioned version ... to include the potential to coerce participation of citizens in such religious practice against their wishes. The freedom spoke of in the 1st Amendment protects not only the right to express religious beliefs freely by the people, but also the freedom not to. But it does not guarantee or protect you from being exposed to religious terms and symbols and expressions which obviously could not be both banned and freely allowed at the same time. The real problem here is that the founders wrongfully assumed that the Constitution would be read, understood and honored by adults with IQ's larger than their shoe size, which is really all that is required for a human being to note the blatantly OBVIOUS differences between a child reciting a poem, and a damned act of Congress. They could never have anticipated that a certain element of the public would become so drooling stupid as to actually believe that the framers intended to ban religion altogether in order to promote religious freedom. Even typing this gives me a headache .... I cannot imagine how a person's mind could become so damaged as to believe this absurdly insane idea that a freedom is protected by elimination, and still maintain the wherewithal to operate a keyboard.
Where did I claim that our Constitution *did* contain the words "separation of church and state"? Talk about strawmen....
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
Your hypothetical straw man is really no argument at all. Anyone who would object to a child reciting a poem that included Allah would be every bit the equal of the idiot objecting to the use of the term God, because the truth is, the terms are synonymous.
#1, it's not a strawman. #2, that's not my point. Of course everyone who is complaining about using the word "God" in a mandatory public school assembly would also object to "Allah". What *I* said was how many people who are whining about "God" being removed from girl's speech would be all up in arms if the speech was given with "Allah" replacing "God" and the school had NOT demanded it be removed? You and I know full well that these same conservatives that are all for using "God" in that speech would be ranting about Sharia Law and a Muslim takeover of our nation if the speech used "Allah" and the school did nothing about it. I'm pointing out the double-standard with a lot of these conservatives.
Don't bother saying "no one would be upset about it if it said Allah" - we see it right here on C-D in this and other fora every day.
The prez of the school board said that because the students were a captive audience, "administrators had the right to remove the word "God."
Whether the child or her parents care, we don't know. This was a case where a few administrators were so afraid of being sued or offending anyone, they went berserk in their nutty interpretation of the religion clauses.
I think we're splitting hairs on this since I agree that the girl absolutely had the right to recite the poem exactly as she wrote it. The board had the right to ask her to not recite it; although I have no legal background, I'm fairly sure the girl had the right to refuse had it really been that much of an issue. The point is that neither the girl nor her parents have made any claims one way or another that anyone is aware of, so until the person in question (or her parents) states they feel their rights were infringed, the whole thing is irrelevant.
All I hear are a bunch of people (including myself) making conjectures about how some people who are choosing to remain silent may feel. There's certainly nothing wrong with not wanting to offend people, but we apparently have a whole bunch of people being offended because somebody else was trying to be inoffensive.
I'm honestly not sure who is being more absurd in their "offense."
Where did I claim that our Constitution *did* contain the words "separation of church and state"? Talk about strawmen....
#1, it's not a strawman. #2, that's not my point. Of course everyone who is complaining about using the word "God" in a mandatory public school assembly would also object to "Allah". What *I* said was how many people who are whining about "God" being removed from girl's speech would be all up in arms if the speech was given with "Allah" replacing "God" and the school had NOT demanded it be removed? You and I know full well that these same conservatives that are all for using "God" in that speech would be ranting about Sharia Law and a Muslim takeover of our nation if the speech used "Allah" and the school did nothing about it. I'm pointing out the double-standard with a lot of these conservatives.
Don't bother saying "no one would be upset about it if it said Allah" - we see it right here on C-D in this and other fora every day.
It's a matter of the culture of this country being destroyed. Comparisons to what Americans would do if "Allah" were used rather than "God," and how conservatives would be outraged, how do you know that in some school somewhere in this country a poem wasn't read by a Mulim student and he/she used "Allah" without an outrage? You don't.
Preserving Amerian culture, history (as it really was, and not a rewritten version) is being attempted to be contorted into making Americans believe that it is some kind of ignorant, racist, socially unacceptable, not PC enough, viewpoint. No, it's not.
The way this country will fall permanently is if good people do nothing.
Here's the contact info. I'll be calling and telling them how I see it.
best,
toodie
[SIZE=6]How to Contact Us:
[/SIZE]Physical Address
McDowell County Schools
334 S. Main St.
Marion, NC 28752
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Hours:
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Monday to Friday[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE] Main Central Office Line: (828) 652-4535 Main Central Office Fax: (828) 659-2238
I think you might be interested in HOW Islam is being taught to children in our public schools. This goes far beyond mere mentioning of Allah or God in a poem and deals directly with widely distributed textbooks:
My friend, I hope you accept the following rant in the good natured spirit it is intended.
This is not the place for a long drawn out explanation of what I'm talking about here, as it would be off topic and hijack this thread, but if you would like to create another thread to explore this, I'd be happy to go into details. So I will be brief here.
There is nothing of major import that takes place on the world stage that isn't created for purposes you don't understand, just as there is nothing that transpires in the public school system that is unwanted by the powers that be. Again, this is not obvious to the masses because they are products of that "education" system which does not want such understanding to exist.
Your warning to me about Islam in the schools clearly demonstrates the fact that you are operating under false assumptions which preclude you from understanding what is really going on. In this, you are trapped, and you must break out. And that is no insult to you personally, just a reality and a byproduct of a very deliberate withholding of knowledge. Armed with accurate information, I'm sure your views, along with many many others, would change radically. They would have to.
I'm sure that as a rational, observant person, you must see all sorts of things taking place that just don't add up, or make any sense whatsoever. Why is this happening, and why are they doing that, should be a constant theme amongst those who actually are paying attention. That's because, according to the narrative that makes up popular perception and consensus world view, relatively little makes any sense. But, break out of this "Matrix" like false world, and recognize the true reality, and those confusions vanish, and all that made no sense to you before, will become as clear as day.
For starters, just explore one concept first. The Hegelian Dialectic ... Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis or more popularly recognized as, Problem-Reaction-Solution.
Hegel's dialectic is the tool which manipulates us into a frenzied circular pattern of thought and action. Every time we fight for or defend against an ideology we are playing a necessary role in Marx and Engels' grand design to advance humanity into a dictatorship of the proletariat. The synthetic Hegelian solution to all these conflicts can't be introduced unless we all take a side that will advance the agenda.
Today the dialectic is active in every political issue that encourages taking sides. We can see it in environmentalists instigating conflicts against private property owners, in democrats against republicans, in greens against libertarians, in communists against socialists, in neo-cons against traditional conservatives, in community activists against individuals, in pro-choice versus pro-life, in Christians against Muslims, in isolationists versus interventionists, in peace activists against war hawks.
In short, the "Internationalists" ... or ... "Globalists" ... or "New World Order" ... or ... "Illuminati" ... whichever term one chooses to refer to this cabal of criminals ... their main mantra is "Order out of Chaos". Their every action is designed to create and maximize chaos across the entire spectrum, including financially, politically, socially, so as to then bring forth their solutions (to problems they purposely created) ... to restore "order".
This is what needs to be understood. Then the rest of this crazy world will make perfect sense, and the proper course of action to defeat these demons will also be clear, which is simply a conscious decision to not play their game which is designed for you to lose and them to win. Just like the old pyramid schemes and ponzi schemes and street games like three-card-monty, if you play, you will loose. Don't play. It's as simple as that.
My friend, I hope you accept the following rant in the good natured spirit it is intended.
This is not the place for a long drawn out explanation of what I'm talking about here, as it would be off topic and hijack this thread, but if you would like to create another thread to explore this, I'd be happy to go into details. So I will be brief here.
There is nothing of major import that takes place on the world stage that isn't created for purposes you don't understand, just as there is nothing that transpires in the public school system that is unwanted by the powers that be. Again, this is not obvious to the masses because they are products of that "education" system which does not want such understanding to exist.
Your warning to me about Islam in the schools clearly demonstrates the fact that you are operating under false assumptions which preclude you from understanding what is really going on. In this, you are trapped, and you must break out. And that is no insult to you personally, just a reality and a byproduct of a very deliberate withholding of knowledge. Armed with accurate information, I'm sure your views, along with many many others, would change radically. They would have to.
I'm sure that as a rational, observant person, you must see all sorts of things taking place that just don't add up, or make any sense whatsoever. Why is this happening, and why are they doing that, should be a constant theme amongst those who actually are paying attention. That's because, according to the narrative that makes up popular perception and consensus world view, relatively little makes any sense. But, break out of this "Matrix" like false world, and recognize the true reality, and those confusions vanish, and all that made no sense to you before, will become as clear as day.
For starters, just explore one concept first. The Hegelian Dialectic ... Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis or more popularly recognized as, Problem-Reaction-Solution.
Hegel's dialectic is the tool which manipulates us into a frenzied circular pattern of thought and action. Every time we fight for or defend against an ideology we are playing a necessary role in Marx and Engels' grand design to advance humanity into a dictatorship of the proletariat. The synthetic Hegelian solution to all these conflicts can't be introduced unless we all take a side that will advance the agenda.
Today the dialectic is active in every political issue that encourages taking sides. We can see it in environmentalists instigating conflicts against private property owners, in democrats against republicans, in greens against libertarians, in communists against socialists, in neo-cons against traditional conservatives, in community activists against individuals, in pro-choice versus pro-life, in Christians against Muslims, in isolationists versus interventionists, in peace activists against war hawks.
In short, the "Internationalists" ... or ... "Globalists" ... or "New World Order" ... or ... "Illuminati" ... whichever term one chooses to refer to this cabal of criminals ... their main mantra is "Order out of Chaos". Their every action is designed to create and maximize chaos across the entire spectrum, including financially, politically, socially, so as to then bring forth their solutions (to problems they purposely created) ... to restore "order".
This is what needs to be understood. Then the rest of this crazy world will make perfect sense, and the proper course of action to defeat these demons will also be clear, which is simply a conscious decision to not play their game which is designed for you to lose and them to win. Just like the old pyramid schemes and ponzi schemes and street games like three-card-monty, if you play, you will loose. Don't play. It's as simple as that.
This may surprise you, but I accept your "order out of Chaos" theory, wholeheartedly. I learned the hard way, trying to change the system from within, working on their stupid countless committees, even having undergone "consensus training". It is why I now advocate homeschooling or private schools over government schools to parents who seem to be working with a full deck. It is why I have spent countless hours uploading information about IB at Truth About IB The problem is, as a homeowner, I am FORCED to pay for this outrageous indoctrination via outrageous school taxes. If I refuse to play that game, they will take away my house.
What a stupid comparison. The 6 year-old wrote "He prayed to God for peace, He prayed to God for strength" in a poem honoring her grandfathers for Veteran's Day. Not close to being unconstitutional and is offensive only to nitwit extremist anti-religionists.
I didn't say it wasn't. I said You hypocrites who cry "persecution" when a six year old kid is not allowed to talk about god at a school assembly, would go ballistic if another six year old kid was allowed to talk about atheism at that same school assembly.
Were is all your outrage when the Secular Student Alliance has been denied their rights to form atheist clubs at high schools all over this country?
I didn't say it wasn't. I said You hypocrites who cry "persecution" when a six year old kid is not allowed to talk about god at a school assembly, would go ballistic if another six kid was allowed to talk about atheism at that same school assembly.
Were is all your outrage when the Secular Student Alliance has been denied their rights to form clubs at high schools all over this country?
Awwww, the poor oppressed students who don't believe in anything. And taxpayers should be hit with an extra bill to pay for an adviser for this ridiculous club? Tell them to join the robotics team.
Awwww, the poor oppressed students who don't believe in anything. And taxpayers should be hit with an extra bill to pay for an adviser for this ridiculous club? Tell them to join the robotics team.
Thank you for proving yourself to be a hypocrite, and making my point.
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