Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Yep, that 5% unemployment rate under W was just unbearable.
The thing with Reagan is he knew what to do and he did it.
He worked with people instead of against them and got a certain degree of cooperation as a result.
Six tenths of a percentage point (63.9% to 64.5%) isn't much of an increase from January 1981 to November 1984, but after the Carter malaise we were finally moving in the right direction with quarter to quarter increases in GDP approaching double-digits, much lower inflation rates, stronger consumer buying power and a misery index reduced by half.
Tell me again, what's better under Obamanomics?
And Reagan accomplished that with record deficit spending. There is no denial of that. From a percentage point compared to all his predecessors it was unprecidented. He put the country on a credit card.
Unemployment was as high as 7.9% in 1947, 7.5% in 1958, 9% in 1975, 10.8% in 1982 and 10% in 2009.
It has also been as low as 4.4% in 2007, 3.8% in 2000 and 3.9% in 1969.
The connection between increased automation and reduced employment in manufacturing is real but numerous other factors are in play and history shows overall employment isn't dependent or even necessarily negatively impacted by advances in technology.
Unemployment has been held low with workforce particpation rate not changing tons because a baby bust entered the market, replacing much of a baby boom. Add in when a lot of automation hit mfg, Y2K plus dotcom was adding , again a one off, tremendous amounts of employees. Y10K would be the next time they are needed. (People focus on net change, not sector change, regarding labor.)
We are now entering a period with baby bust following baby bust, so when robots take jobs now, either participation must drop, or unemployment must rise. Add in RFID is huge. Are you aware cashiers are one of the nations largest job classifications, at 3 MILLION employees. Try imaging the effects of 2.4 million pink slips, as only 1 register shops might retain the same quantity.
I'm not faulting you for missing this baby boom vs bust issue. It is truly a one time, radical shift in population. But it skewed the effects of automation, and now the piper must be paid.
Then you prefer WSJ to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Right? I will have to wonder about that one for a while. However, your attack on my source tells me a lot about where you look for news.
The WSJ gets their figures from the Labor Dept..
Furthermore, we're not discussing the past 5 or 6 months of jobs reports, we're talking NOVEMBER 2012 roy.
Did you even bother to read where it said government job creation was flat for NOVEMBER? and only 50,000 in OCTOBER? but we're not talking October or previous to the months of NOVEMBER. Your cns article takes 5 or 6 previous months into account. Not the Present Time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVandSportsGuy
The unemployment rate went down on paper, but in reality........................
We know that, BLS U1 thru U6 explained and discussed earlier in this thread.
What a crock!
The fact that YOU - and folks LIKE YOU - don't like what the numbers say it means "They're faked"?
Sorry but that's GARBAGE. The fact that some clown on the internet says so - doesn't MAKE IT SO.
Ken, why should I "like" the numbers when they are as phony as a three dollar bill? If the numbers were true and accurate, good news would be good news. Your insinuation that I don't like good economic news because of my partisan bias against Obama is absurd. Sure Ken, everyone that challenges this nonsense just wants the country's economy to implode just to make your Rock Star in the White House look bad. Brilliant Ken .... that's real freaking astute .... we would rather starve to death, lose our jobs and our homes and our livelihoods so long as Obama gets the blame? No Ken, such idiocy is reserved for the left wing loons who actually embrace self destruction in every policy and ideology they're drawn to. Rational thinking people don't think this way .... I personally wouldn't care if Big Bird was president, or Tickle-Me-Elmo ... if the economy started improving, but wanting a thing to be true doesn't make it true Ken, it only makes the believer an uninformed, unsuspecting victim of what is to be an inescapable and foregone conclusion should the current course be maintained.
When you live on the coast, Ken, it's extremely helpful to know ahead of time that a massive Hurricane is bearing down on you, which will allow you to prepare and take the necessary precautions and safeguards. Those who might be caught totally unaware are the most vulnerable to the worst outcome. The same is true in the world of economics, and those who are aware of an impending storm can prepare for it, which will mitigate the impact. That's why I don't "like" the numbers Ken, because such lies only set the stage for inaction which will result in greater suffering, and preclude any effective measures to turn things around for the better.
It's quite evil Ken ... can you imagine the National Weather Service seeing a massive Hurricane bearing down on South Carolina, while they report clear weather ahead to the people there? That's what these criminals are doing Ken ... so stop parroting the lies and open your eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor
You folks are so "tin foil hat" there's not a lot of sense in even conversing with you since EVERYTHING is some kind of "plot". Even though the head of the BLS was appointed by BUSH, that organization is somehow "in the tank" for Obama. Give me brake. You folks are no more correct on this stuff than you were on who was going to win the election. How'd that turn out for ya?
Ken
Your first mistake, Ken, is this misconception that presidents actually control economic activity, when nothing could be further from the truth. The Federal Reserve and it's monetary policies are the primary determiner for which direction the economy will go .. either growth or retraction, and that includes massive creation of funny money to support deficit spending and borrowing and expansion of the long term debt. You cannot borrow your way into economic stability when it was the borrowing that got you into the mess to begin with. Gasoline on the fire, ken ..... this is idiocy SQUARED.
Furthermore, Ken, government doesn't create economic growth ... whatever jobs government creates is just more drain on the general economy, and that is counterproductive. Government's role in this is to establish policies that are favorable to private sector growth and success, yet for the better part of the last 3 decades, it has done the exact opposite, which is why we are in such an economic pickle.
Do you have the foggiest sense of what 1.65 Trillion annual deficits mean economically (that was the 2011 figure)? I don't think you do. Considering that the total federal expenditure for 2011 was 3.75 Trillion, that deficit represents 44% rate of borrowing each year now just to meet annual spending. Couple that with no real increase in actual production ... i.e. manufacturing things and selling them to other countries Ken, and you cannot have a recovery occurring! The patient has a gaping wound Ken, and is bleeding out.
There is no economic growth in government hiring more TSA goons to inspect your underwear Ken .... no economic growth in deploying 30,000 surveillance drones and DHS purchasing 3 Billion rounds of hollow point ammo .... no benefit to McDonalds hiring more burger flippers ... no growth in hiring more healthcare workers to write you prescriptions for antidepressants and more IRS Agents to shake you down for more tax revenue, Ken. That's just putting perfume on the pig, and more of the same living off credit that created this disaster.
And the fun has just begun .... 2013 is not going to be better than 2012 ken, so long as people like you continue wetting your pants in excitement every time another great sounding lie is fed you .... by the end of 2013, 2012 will be looked upon as the "good old days", because the big elephant in the room which you don't notice is .... that as bad as things appear, they are actually much, much worse, because on top of the deficits and 16 Trillion in debt that are on the books ... there is another 16 Trillion that was not accounted for that was doled out to the bankers between 2008-2011 in off-book transfers. That little tidbit was revealed in the limited audit last year Ken .... that means that 2013 will be the year of inflation, as that comes back to roost. Taking this into consideration, along with QE-3 and the indefinite 40 Billion Monthly purchases of Mortgage Backed Securities that the Fed now intends .... and we're looking at an inflation rate projected by the non-liar economists of better than 4% PER MONTH ... and annual inflation of 40-70% for just 2013.
Do you have any idea what that means Ken? I tell you what it means ... it means that you'd better have a Merry Merry Christmas this year Ken .... cuz next year, Santa's Workshop will be in foreclosure. But the good news is, many people will not have to worry about buying a Christmas Tree next year, as they may be living in the woods.
And don't think for a second that this left wing lug nut in the White House has any answers, or the stuffed suit bribe takers in congress. This leftist mantra of "tax the rich"? Pure idiocy Ken. Do you realize that if the government took EVERY PENNY of every American's income over $250,000 ... it would only fund 38% of the annual budget as it stands now? EVERY PENNY KEN .... 100% tax rate on all income over $250,000 wouldn't even keep the lights on until June, so raising anyone's taxes is a TOTAL FARCE.
They are deliberately crashing the economy Ken ... because nobody at the levers of real power are this stupid and incompetent. They know exactly what they are doing ... and people like me are trying to tell people like you the truth. But you won't have any part of the truth. You lefties would rather be lied to, for some bizarre reason, which explains your unholy, disgusting worship of the Liar-In-Chief.
The WSJ gets their figures from the Labor Dept..
Furthermore, we're not discussing the past 5 or 6 months of jobs reports, we're talking NOVEMBER 2012 roy.
Did you even bother to read where it said government job creation was flat for NOVEMBER? and only 50,000 in OCTOBER? but we're not talking October or previous to the months of NOVEMBER. Your cns article takes 5 or 6 previous months into account. Not the Present Time.
We know that, BLS U1 thru U6 explained and discussed earlier in this thread.
It seems that you are just as willing to accept numbers that feel good as I am. In the 60s when young people were so convinced that if it feels good, do it I always wondered about them. Yes sir, these numbers look so good to you leaners so make sure that nobody calls any attention to what has gone on up to the post election month. That is the name of the game here, isn't it?
Ken, why should I "like" the numbers when they are as phony as a three dollar bill? If the numbers were true and accurate, good news would be good news. Your insinuation that I don't like good economic news because of my partisan bias against Obama is absurd. Sure Ken, everyone that challenges this nonsense just wants the country's economy to implode just to make your Rock Star in the White House look bad. Brilliant Ken .... that's real freaking astute .... we would rather starve to death, lose our jobs and our homes and our livelihoods so long as Obama gets the blame? No Ken, such idiocy is reserved for the left wing loons who actually embrace self destruction in every policy and ideology they're drawn to. Rational thinking people don't think this way .... I personally wouldn't care if Big Bird was president, or Tickle-Me-Elmo ... if the economy started improving, but wanting a thing to be true doesn't make it true Ken, it only makes the believer an uninformed, unsuspecting victim of what is to be an inescapable and foregone conclusion should the current course be maintained.
When you live on the coast, Ken, it's extremely helpful to know ahead of time that a massive Hurricane is bearing down on you, which will allow you to prepare and take the necessary precautions and safeguards. Those who might be caught totally unaware are the most vulnerable to the worst outcome. The same is true in the world of economics, and those who are aware of an impending storm can prepare for it, which will mitigate the impact. That's why I don't "like" the numbers Ken, because such lies only set the stage for inaction which will result in greater suffering, and preclude any effective measures to turn things around for the better.
It's quite evil Ken ... can you imagine the National Weather Service seeing a massive Hurricane bearing down on South Carolina, while they report clear weather ahead to the people there? That's what these criminals are doing Ken ... so stop parroting the lies and open your eyes.
Your first mistake, Ken, is this misconception that presidents actually control economic activity, when nothing could be further from the truth. The Federal Reserve and it's monetary policies are the primary determiner for which direction the economy will go .. either growth or retraction, and that includes massive creation of funny money to support deficit spending and borrowing and expansion of the long term debt. You cannot borrow your way into economic stability when it was the borrowing that got you into the mess to begin with. Gasoline on the fire, ken ..... this is idiocy SQUARED.
Furthermore, Ken, government doesn't create economic growth ... whatever jobs government creates is just more drain on the general economy, and that is counterproductive. Government's role in this is to establish policies that are favorable to private sector growth and success, yet for the better part of the last 3 decades, it has done the exact opposite, which is why we are in such an economic pickle.
Do you have the foggiest sense of what 1.65 Trillion annual deficits mean economically (that was the 2011 figure)? I don't think you do. Considering that the total federal expenditure for 2011 was 3.75 Trillion, that deficit represents 44% rate of borrowing each year now just to meet annual spending. Couple that with no real increase in actual production ... i.e. manufacturing things and selling them to other countries Ken, and you cannot have a recovery occurring! The patient has a gaping wound Ken, and is bleeding out.
There is no economic growth in government hiring more TSA goons to inspect your underwear Ken .... no economic growth in deploying 30,000 surveillance drones and DHS purchasing 3 Billion rounds of hollow point ammo .... no benefit to McDonalds hiring more burger flippers ... no growth in hiring more healthcare workers to write you prescriptions for antidepressants and more IRS Agents to shake you down for more tax revenue, Ken. That's just putting perfume on the pig, and more of the same living off credit that created this disaster.
And the fun has just begun .... 2013 is not going to be better than 2012 ken, so long as people like you continue wetting your pants in excitement every time another great sounding lie is fed you .... by the end of 2013, 2012 will be looked upon as the "good old days", because the big elephant in the room which you don't notice is .... that as bad as things appear, they are actually much, much worse, because on top of the deficits and 16 Trillion in debt that are on the books ... there is another 16 Trillion that was not accounted for that was doled out to the bankers between 2008-2011 in off-book transfers. That little tidbit was revealed in the limited audit last year Ken .... that means that 2013 will be the year of inflation, as that comes back to roost. Taking this into consideration, along with QE-3 and the indefinite 40 Billion Monthly purchases of Mortgage Backed Securities that the Fed now intends .... and we're looking at an inflation rate projected by the non-liar economists of better than 4% PER MONTH ... and annual inflation of 40-70% for just 2013.
Do you have any idea what that means Ken? I tell you what it means ... it means that you'd better have a Merry Merry Christmas this year Ken .... cuz next year, Santa's Workshop will be in foreclosure. But the good news is, many people will not have to worry about buying a Christmas Tree next year, as they may be living in the woods.
And don't think for a second that this left wing lug nut in the White House has any answers, or the stuffed suit bribe takers in congress. This leftist mantra of "tax the rich"? Pure idiocy Ken. Do you realize that if the government took EVERY PENNY of every American's income over $250,000 ... it would only fund 38% of the annual budget as it stands now? EVERY PENNY KEN .... 100% tax rate on all income over $250,000 wouldn't even keep the lights on until June, so raising anyone's taxes is a TOTAL FARCE.
They are deliberately crashing the economy Ken ... because nobody at the levers of real power are this stupid and incompetent. They know exactly what they are doing ... and people like me are trying to tell people like you the truth. But you won't have any part of the truth. You lefties would rather be lied to, for some bizarre reason, which explains your unholy, disgusting worship of the Liar-In-Chief.
I tried to rep you for this one but wasn't allowed to do it so will just have to do it out here in the open.
Unemployment has been held low with workforce participation rate not changing tons because a baby bust entered the market, replacing much of a baby boom. Add in when a lot of automation hit mfg, Y2K plus dotcom was adding , again a one off, tremendous amounts of employees. Y10K would be the next time they are needed. (People focus on net change, not sector change, regarding labor.)
We are now entering a period with baby bust following baby bust, so when robots take jobs now, either participation must drop, or unemployment must rise. Add in RFID is huge. Are you aware cashiers are one of the nations largest job classifications, at 3 MILLION employees. Try imaging the effects of 2.4 million pink slips, as only 1 register shops might retain the same quantity.
I'm not faulting you for missing this baby boom vs bust issue. It is truly a one time, radical shift in population. But it skewed the effects of automation, and now the piper must be paid.
Hey, what's that smell?
Is that what I think it is?
No, it couldn't be...
OH GROSS!
That's disgusting!
Why that's a huge steaming pile of BULL SH^T!
Do you really think the participation rate changed because people who don't exist are being counted in the civilian workforce as though they did?
And Reagan accomplished that with record deficit spending. There is no denial of that. From a percentage point compared to all his predecessors it was unprecidented. He put the country on a credit card.
"Reagan struck a sorrowful note about the TEFRA deal in his memoirs, writing that “later the Democrats reneged on their pledge and we never got those cuts.” Many of his closest aides agree with the judgment of Reagan’s longtime intimate, Edwin Meese, that “the TEFRA compromise—the ‘Debacle of 1982’—was the greatest domestic error of the Reagan administration."
Reagan's mistake was to believe Democrats would ever cut spending.
Reagardless of what they say, spending is the air they breathe.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
