America's transition to a Totalitarian State (Congress, generation, weapons, Clinton)

[Mag3.14]

Originally Posted by freightshaker

Yes they are, and they are on the same path as the US... Time hasn't come to a stop yet.... Remember, Britain as well as France didn't start as Democratic,,They were Monarchys that transformed into democracy and as such are actually newer to democratic principles than is the US...

Say what??? What on earth are you talking about?

Britain is the worlds oldest parliamentary democracy. The Magna Carta was written and signed in the 13th century.

Hardly on their way to totalitarian states. Any whif of a social program is often referred to as socialism or something else we should be deathly afraid of. Pull your head out if your..

[Swingblade]

[quote=doctorhugo;27843370]You see Swingblade, if you simply use the word "democracy" it's too non-specific to accurately define those who support this form of government. A "direct democracy" and a "representative democracy" should be the choice and you must reference one or the other as the appropriate (Some further break down the representative form into two others, primarily distinquished by, in one, the Executive being a mere figurehead and politically impotent, as in England). You didn't! A representative democracy (the American sub-form version)...leads to tyranny only when We the People fail in our due diligence as 'responsible' patriotic citizens and become either greedy and/or apathetic in large numbers. That's been the erosion in our representative form of democracy and a causation, that is soon to culminate in disaster as I've opined consistently.
“Apathy is the resignation to failure Where there is no will to succeed.” (me)



For starters I am a intellectual midget with a bad memory with that said I think what we call a Representative democracy is a abomination. It is more of a direct democracy since we decided against the states reps sending the person of their choosing to the U S Senate. It was decided that the people would vote for their Senator and thus we have both Houses and the POTUS picked by the means of a direct democracy. The fine tune that you talk about was already done where there was one House that was not elected directly by the people.

Many, like myself as an example, see our penchant for "nation-building" as horrendous and blind to the lessons of history. Pat Buchanan was of that belief and treated akin to being tarred-and-feathered by the spineless Repubs as an "isolationist".

And so was Paul which proves my point the {R} party will always be for huge military spending at home and abroad. We both know that candidates like them will never ever get the backing of the establishment or the money and thus defeated every time.Why do you think the {R} party attacks them so viciously with terms like isolationist and nut case. Could it be they are attacking the Santa Clause of the MIC that Eisenhower warned us about?

A militarily impotent USA in this world is the folly of fools. We are moving ever closer to that now and as a veteran who served over 50+years ago I KNOW THAT to be true and accurate.

I do not see it, how do you explain no nation is even close to spending what we do on the military, It takes several nations combined just to match us. Unless you are insinuating that the left will be in control or able to implement cuts to the military in exchange to feed the social Santa then I would agree. I would venture to say the left has the most ability to hang on for long periods of time, as the writer suggested the belt tightening party is not too popular. Look how the {R} party is viewed in the polls and the lost of seats in the last couple elections.

I don't like cherry-picking of writings and suspect that you may not have read the entire book and culled this reference from here> May 1988 Issue, The Freeman/Ideas on Liberty.

I confess I have not read that book but I have read a couple of books by the author and I cherry picked that from Wiki. I told you I was a midget The Road to Serfdom book I have read many years ago I will have to dig that out of the shed to read again.

I think a lot of us know we are on a run away train with no brakes, there is no hope and change and thats even before it became a phoney slogan. As the author of the article pointed out we are getting the tyranny in doses where the gvt is involved in every facets of our lives
education,health, transportation,commerce, food, farming, etc, etc, and even death. And the ones he missed that chip away at are freedom see Patriot act ,FISA, etc etc.

I stand behind my uneducated hypothesis and that I agree with the author that we will get all out tyranny lead by one party. They will become more involved in our daily lives until the country crashes and from the ashes who knows what the U S will look like. Hmmm maybe a new Santa will appear.

[doctorhugo]

Swingblade, you responded with ths to my opening rersponse back to you;

For starters I am a intellectual midget with a bad memory with that said I think what we call a Representative democracy is a abomination. It is more of a direct democracy since we decided against the states reps sending the person of their choosing to the U S Senate. It was decided that the people would vote for their Senator and thus we have both Houses and the POTUS picked by the means of a direct democracy. The fine tune that you talk about was already done where there was one House that was not elected directly by the people.

You're absolutely correct about the direct election of senators, which was accomplished by the 17th Amendment, making our representative democracy MORE OF a direct democracy, BUT it's still a representative democracy simply because we elect representatives to make law in the "public interest" and on our behalf. The reason that I used bold font for emphasis in my first reply back to you was to denote that what we now observe is NOT a failure of the system, simply a failure of those we've elected to act in the peoples best interests. We elect them, so WE must accept a certain degree of blame for their individual and collective incompetence and TRY to elect better people to those positions. You may say easier said than done, which is correct and I agree, but we canot absolve ourselves of continuing to re-elect THESE SAME politicians who grow arrogant and too comfortable in their position as they grow longer in the tooth with age! I'm NOT arguing strict constitutional philosophy here, I'm arguing REALITY of the here and now. This last 4 years, especially with the Crybaby Boehner leadership in the HO-House, have been absolutely corrosive politically to our nation as they've completely ignored their constitutional responsibilities (need I quote Article and Section). Now, after about three dozen abuses of Executive Order range of authority to implement law..., Boehner is talking within that same HO-House about one XO exceeding constitutional authority! Give me a break. I, early on in this Obozo administration, started a file called Bill of Impeachment. I documented 5 instances early in his first term where he committed impeachable offenses and specified each one. There are many more, but I gave up adding them when I started discussing them online in two other past forums I posted to and the interest was a unanimous and resounding nil. The same with online petitions to push for Impeachment. They preferred to keep posting at what I call The Wailing Wall of Whining and not push the HO-House leadership TO ACT. Not to even try to. Right there, when you cannot get concerned citizens who post all day long about this political stuff to act, how can you expect to make a dent and influence anyone on anything?

And so was Paul which proves my point the {R} party will always be for huge military spending at home and abroad. We both know that candidates like them will never ever get the backing of the establishment or the money and thus defeated every time.Why do you think the {R} party attacks them so viciously with terms like isolationist and nut case. Could it be they are attacking the Santa Clause of the MIC that Eisenhower warned us about?

On Paul I disagree, so you prove no point to me with him. Paul is flawed on his view of foreign policy. If you concede and believe that we ARE the greatest nation, then as that...the greatest FREE NATION, we do have some responsibility to lead...to show the way. Between THAT and nation-building, a decided no-no, there is a clear wall of distinction. If you don't believe..., we may as well stop right here! Paul refuses to recognize that and thinks we need a military only to respond to direct attacks upon us. That's outdated thinking in a rapidly shrinking world and in one where we are on the edge of such disconcerting realities> Defense.gov News Article: DOD Releases First Strategy for Operating in... , it's lame-brained. Example; CHINA - She'll never attack us directly. She doesn't need to. Obozo has empowered her to control us by being the biggest underwriter investor in our debt as he heads us to economic ruination. China has no reason to DIRECTLY attack us, but she does have great motivation to intimidate our allies in the Pacific and thus leave us standing alone. She attacks, cheats and competes against our economic system and builds the largest, most technically adept Navy in the world and slowly, but surely asserts her dominering presence through the western Pacific and moves ever eastward. Australia hasn't reacted and built up it's Navy. Ditto Japan, S. Korea. Paul doesn't deal with that reality. In other things he's right-on like the unconstitutionality of The Federal Reserve and getting our financial house in order, but he's also a petulant child at times. I stated this when I first returned to this site. When the two declared VIABLE CANDIDATES were down to Obozo and Romney, he acted like a spoiled child and would never throw his support to Romney. We can argue pro and con on Romney, but there may well have been enough Libertarians and Indies this time who SAT IT OUT, who collectively could have made the difference. His behavior was inexcusable and the old "lesser of two evils" bullsh*t some spew doesn't get it done. Romney may not be my conservative ideal, BUT he is not EVIL..., Obozo IS! The rest of what you think is not a valid case. It's simply an unsubstantiated rant that is commonly heard all over. Paul supporters lashing out, because the conservative element of the Republican Party wouldn't kiss his *ss and accept him. Your statements define you. Like Obozo, you and Paul would cut our military to a bare bones skelton. This is not about Eisenhower's correct assessment of a very real military-industrial complex that is mutually self-sustaining to a fault, so please don't peddle that garbage at me. I've been around much too long to fall for that crapola. It's about maintaining a well-equipped, well-trained armed forces AT ALL TIMES so if we are ever threatened we can effectively respond. Back in 2000 The Heritage Foundation got it right in this article: http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2000/09/bg1394-the-facts-about-military-readiness
...and in the 12 full years since China has overtaken us and keeps on building it's might:
China's High-Tech Military Threat - Commentary Magazine
Chinese Military Power: Can We Avoid Cold War? » FAS Strategic Security Blog
When I disagree with someone I prefer to back my position up with fact-based positions from those who know. Your positions are mere opinion ranting. You can't back them up with legitimate fact only other politicized rants that agree with you. Your proof is to suggest to me that the right is MY Santa Claus, equivalent to the left's version. If you feel that way then why don't you end it all now. You've painted yourself into a CORNER OF HOPELESSNESS with Ron Paul as your Don Quixote. Ridiculous! Get real Sancho.

Make your case with facts and reason as I have gone into much detail to do.

I do not see it, how do you explain no nation is even close to spending what we do on the military, It takes several nations combined just to match us. Unless you are insinuating that the left will be in control or able to implement cuts to the military in exchange to feed the social Santa then I would agree. I would venture to say the left has the most ability to hang on for long periods of time, as the writer suggested the belt tightening party is not too popular. Look how the {R} party is viewed in the polls and the lost of seats in the last couple elections.

The fact that you even have to ask that opening qustion tells me you have no grip on contemporary threat assessment realities. It's not about HOW much money is spent, but HOW it's spent. And comparing us, the US, to other countries means little to nothing. Do you believe the wisdom in the old axiom that..."Etenal Vigilance is the Price of Freedom."? If you don't then this discussion is useless. The natural extension of that axiom of truth would be...(#58 in my Book of Philosophy)

“Freedom encumbers men with a single great responsibility.
To be ever watchful for those who would steal it away
And act before they do.”

Obozo believes that *ss-kissing, apology tours are the way to make nice with those who openly disdain and threaten your very existence. I repeat...you've painted yourself into a corner with your silly Santa Claus adaptation to define both the left and right as no good. That corner of HOPELESSNESS of your own creation I spoke to earlier. Your *ss-sumption about the right is wrong and greatly exaggerated as you paint all with one wide stroke. Overly aggressive hawks nowadays are passe and pretty much a rarity of exaggeration used to conjure up unwarranted fear.

I confess I have not read that book but I have read a couple of books by the author and I cherry picked that from Wiki. I told you I was a midget The Road to Serfdom book I have read many years ago I will have to dig that out of the shed to read again.

I think a lot of us know we are on a run away train with no brakes, there is no hope and change and thats even before it became a phoney slogan. As the author of the article pointed out we are getting the tyranny in doses where the gvt is involved in every facets of our lives
education,health, transportation,commerce, food, farming, etc, etc, and even death. And the ones he missed that chip away at are freedom see Patriot act ,FISA, etc etc.

I stand behind my uneducated hypothesis and that I agree with the author that we will get all out tyranny lead by one party. They will become more involved in our daily lives until the country crashes and from the ashes who knows what the U S will look like. Hmmm maybe a new Santa will appear.

I agree with BOTH your second and third paragraph sentiments, save for the final act (but allow that I could be wrong). Should the Repubs lose HO-House control in 2014 we will suffer much economic pain during the last two years of Obozo's second term. It will be unfortunately necessary, imo, to awaken the dullards of the rank-and-file left; the third party devotees and the RINO contigent to that reality GOAL of Obozo's that I've predicted. His legacy of having brought us to the brink and precipitated a one-party totalitarian elite controlled state. Only with great economic pain like we see in Europe will those groups of people I noted and ALL the media talking heads finally awaken from their self-imposed stupor in time for the 2016 national election. If that doesn't happen America will be over imo, having sunk into the abyss of anarchy and survivalist mentality with yet another demonRATic loser at the controls.

[Huckleberry3911948]

the debting is not stopping. they will be unable to continue to resist deflation. repeat of 1929 coming soon. as armstrong took steroids to keep going so does washington.

[rorqual]

As can be seen in the comments here, progressives/liberals are always optimistic about our great nation, while the conservatives are always pessimistic. We believe our nation will always reach higher heights of greatness, conservatives keep propagating fear mongering to scare people. Its the same scenario that was played out during the elections - every month that the jobs report was improving, after the greatest economic disaster since the Great Depression, Democrats and rest of the nation cheered it while Republicans were disgusted by it. You could see it on their faces, on Fox News, in Jack Welch and Donald Trumps twitter feed, etc. And then they have the guile to use the term "Patriot" to describe themselves. The hilarity !

[urbanlife78]

I get a kick out of reading these "the ceiling is falling" threads. Good to see the Cons are still ripe with fear.

[bobtn]

Originally Posted by rorqual

The Republican/TeaParty is so focused on the financial health of the nation hence their agenda has been:

legitimate rape

anti-abortion bills

vaginal probes

keeping minorities from voting

banning gay marriage

installing christian sharia law

"personhood" bills (hell, Paul "Failed VP/ Death voucher man" Ryan introduced yet another one in the House last week!)

Great post. And the social conservs are not intelligent enough to know they have no possible path to power w/o fiscal conservatives and moderates.

[kidkaos2]

Originally Posted by rorqual

The Republican/TeaParty is so focused on the financial health of the nation hence their agenda has been:

legitimate rape

anti-abortion bills

vaginal probes

keeping minorities from voting

banning gay marriage

installing christian sharia law

"personhood" bills (hell, Paul "Failed VP/ Death voucher man" Ryan introduced yet another one in the House last week!)

Actually, no. That's you projecting what you want the Republican agenda to be onto Republicans, so that you can then fight against it and come across as morally superior. To those who actually practice logical thinking, it is known as a strawman.

For any intellectually honest people reading this post, here's a helpful link to the actual Republican agenda:

GOP Platform | White House 2016

[rorqual]

Originally Posted by kidkaos2

Actually, no. That's you projecting what you want the Republican agenda to be onto Republicans, so that you can then fight against it and come across as morally superior. To those who actually practice logical thinking, it is known as a strawman.

For any intellectually honest people reading this post, here's a helpful link to the actual Republican agenda:

GOP Platform | White House 2016

That's the agenda on paper, the real agenda is what they have been doing since elected in 2010 which is what I listed, it is a tea party driven agenda because the GOP has been hijacked by them. The Democrats didn't force Republicans to talk about vaginal probes, legitimate rape or other nonsense its what the current dominant strain of the GOP believes in.

[whogo]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

I get a kick out of reading these "the ceiling is falling" threads. Good to see the Cons are still ripe with fear.

Check out the global warming threads to find the liberal chicken littles.