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Old 03-12-2013, 02:58 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
1. If guns deter crime, why is America's violent crime rate so much higher than that of the borderline socialist, typically anti-gun Europe? Why is Texas's crime rate so much higher than that of, say, Massachusetts? Shouldn't Texas be the safest region on Earth?
Where I live gun ownership is probably about 90%, there is no gun crime because the people that live here are responsible gun owners. Even if someone wanted to come here and commit crime they are outnumbered 10 thousand to one and they have a very good chance of getting shot. Hearing gun shots is common and of no concern to anyone.



Quote:
2. How does the second amendment forbid gun control legislation?
"shall not be infringed"

Quote:
Does the first amendment forbid libel and slander laws?
The second amendment doesn't allow murder does it?

Quote:
3. To those who use the "ban guns and criminals will just obtain them illegally" argument, do you support the war on drugs as well?
The war on drugs is lost cause.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:02 PM
 
775 posts, read 740,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Where I live gun ownership is probably about 90%, there is no gun crime because the people that live here are responsible gun owners.
Yet various anti-gun-control groups oppose legislation that would ban irresponsible people from owning guns. Please explain why.

Quote:
"shall not be infringed"
= absolute law with no parameters whatsoever?

Quote:
The second amendment doesn't allow murder does it?
...how is this even remotely relevant?
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:04 PM
 
9,659 posts, read 10,227,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
Yet various anti-gun-control groups oppose legislation that would ban irresponsible people from owning guns. Please explain why.



= absolute law with no parameters whatsoever?
If it's a firearm, it's supposed to be legal.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:06 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,822,024 times
Reputation: 6509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
Yet various anti-gun-control groups oppose legislation that would ban irresponsible people from owning guns.
What legislation would that be?
Please be specific so I can tell you why your wrong and how the legislation would not work.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:18 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
Yet various anti-gun-control groups oppose legislation that would ban irresponsible people from owning guns. Please explain why.
Because only responsible people obey laws.




Quote:

...how is this even remotely relevant?
Laws governing free speech do not prevent the misuse of the first amendment, neither do gun laws prevent the misuse of the second. Understand now?
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:25 PM
 
510 posts, read 889,111 times
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Texas is a major port of entry for illegal drugs and illegal aliens into the US and for export of illegal guns, stolen vehicles and cash into Mexico. Lots of 'evil-doers' operating in that portion of the country. I don't know of an equivalent really for MA. The US isn't a homogenous mixture, take a more in depth look at the apple compared to the orange.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:27 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,287 posts, read 9,822,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainforest338 View Post
Texas is a major port of entry for illegal drugs and illegal aliens into the US and for export of illegal guns, stolen vehicles and cash into Mexico. Lots of 'evil-doers' operating in that portion of the country. I don't know of an equivalent really for MA. The US isn't a homogenous mixture, take a more in depth look at the apple compared to the orange.
The only quantity of guns being imported into Mexico from the US is by the BATF
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:29 PM
 
Location: MS
4,395 posts, read 4,911,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
1. If guns deter crime, why is America's violent crime rate so much higher than that of the borderline socialist, typically anti-gun Europe? Why is Texas's crime rate so much higher than that of, say, Massachusetts? Shouldn't Texas be the safest region on Earth?

2. How does the second amendment forbid gun control legislation? Does the first amendment forbid libel and slander laws? Why is the second amendment taken to be absolute, while far more fundamental liberties are frequently curbed in the name of security (cough cough Patriot cough cough act)?

3. To those who use the "ban guns and criminals will just obtain them illegally" argument, do you support the war on drugs as well?
1. Others are providing better answers to this question than I could with my limited time.
2. "Shall not be infringed" sums it up. You are correct, libel and slander are not forbidden but the law does not take effect until someone slanders another. Gun control is like having a "Minority Report" pre-crime unit and stating that just because someone has a gun they will sooner or later commit a crime with it. Taking that full circle, you have a mouth therefore you will sooner or later slander someone. And the Patriot Act is as unconstitutional as they come.
3. I do not support it as they are currently waging it. The last time something of this type was done correctly was Prohibition. The federal government went to the states and requested a power not in the Constitution. The states granted the power to the feds and they banned alcohol. Stupid move in hindsight and it was corrected but not after giving rise to organized crime.

The federal government has no power at all to ban drugs. It's easy to read the Constitution and determine that. This was one of the many precedents set for the unrestrained growth of the federal government.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:35 PM
 
Location: texas
9,127 posts, read 7,943,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
1. If guns deter crime, why is America's violent crime rate so much higher than that of the borderline socialist, typically anti-gun Europe? Why is Texas's crime rate so much higher than that of, say, Massachusetts? Shouldn't Texas be the safest region on Earth?

2. How does the second amendment forbid gun control legislation? Does the first amendment forbid libel and slander laws? Why is the second amendment taken to be absolute, while far more fundamental liberties are frequently curbed in the name of security (cough cough Patriot cough cough act)?

3. To those who use the "ban guns and criminals will just obtain them illegally" argument, do you support the war on drugs as well?
Texas and Massachusetts? Thats like comparing Australia and Ireland. Kinda the same kind of people but not really.
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Old 03-12-2013, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,176,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sci Fi Fan View Post
Of course not. Texas was a colorful example - a more objective view of crime rates in general, however, demonstrates a sharp correlation between accessibility to guns and murder rates, even when the opposite should be true by conservative logic.

...

Can someone translate conservative-speak here, and tell me what hoffdano is trying to say here?


.....




Feel free to cite your statistics demonstrating that illegal aliens commit a large enough portion of crimes in southern states to account for their higher crime rate.
My only point (really) is the violent crime is not affected by any one thing - including gun laws. You should know that.

As for my comments on diversity - well - please extrapolate if you have the brain power. Highly homogeneous populations with higher socioconomic status have less violent crime than areas with more diversity and lower socioeconomic status. Massachusetts falls into the first category.
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