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They didn't, but you're mistaken with your comment about "greasing" the path to unemployment.
If you will research the Hostess situation, you will see that the union had made concessions to management, even cutting pay.
They greased it by refusing to meet the corps terms in the closing months, knowing full well, to not do so meant certain unemployment. They greased it by not ever proposing giving up feather-bedded 2 trucks to deliver 2 products as a means to further move toward solvency.
I used to buy into the Libertarian myth that your skill set is what makes you valuable. No, it really doesn't unless you have a master's degree, Ph.D., or another professional graduate degree. NO matter what, the goal of the company is to pay the lowest amount of money possible to their employees, it's the employees' job to negotiate the salary upwards, either by themselves (most of the time unsuccessful) or through a union. It is my belief as well that the good salaries that some white collar non union jobs provide is more to prevent unionization of the workplace (throwing a bone to the workers) than the company recognizing, geez this guy is really valuable. I want to pay him $60,000 because of his degree. The tea party thinks the world works this way. No, I'm a realist. The way the world works is this: "I'm going to pay him $60,000 instead of $30,000 so he wouldn't get uppity and want to unionize, forcing me to pay him $90,000 instead". In the end, unions and the threat of unionization are what maintains the middle class, not the goodness of the CEOs hearts, this ain't Japan and we're not Japanese. Yes, I recognize that a company does not exist to provide good jobs to people, that is where conservatives are right and the left are wrong. But, that situation is remedied through threat of unionization or outright unionization. It is in this way that the tug of war between maximum profit and worker satisfaction is achieved
From where did the premise come that an employee should have the right to bargain with an employer who took all the risk and sacrifice to build that business?
So now employees cannot even bargain individually??? This doesn't sound like capitalism at all. More like some bizzare form of fascism or something. Labor is a resource. The business man requires this resource to make money. Prices are negotiable. Deal with it.
You're kidding yourself if you think that unionization causes outsourcing. That argument is exposed when one considers the fact that going overseas for cheaper labor as a means to "stay competitive" led to an explosion of pay for the average CEO during the last 30 years.
Were it really a matter of higher wages for American workers being unsustainable you would have seen an increase in the pay of management, but nowhere near what we've experienced as the companies would have been making that move to merely stay competitive. The explosion of wages suggests that plenty of money was and is present to support union wages and benefits, but that it has been reallocated to the top earners instead of throughout the company as your simple understanding of economics would suggest.
Funny how all the high paid American CEOs can't run a profitable operation here in the states. For that, they must send everything to China, India, etc. In the mean time, all I see are European and even CHINESE business owners and CEOs rushing in to set up shop in America. Seems to me the American CEO's and their management are overpaid and underskilled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midpack
Let's take your city. Two businesses in the exact same business making widgets, company A pays it's workers $10/hr and company B pays it's workers $13.33/hr. Productivity and quality is the same. The customers in the city determine what they're willing to pay for widgets, the companies can't sustain different prices for their widgets, no one will pay more for the same widget. How exactly does company B compete?
Now company C ships widgets from Mexico, they pay their workers $2/hr. There are additional shipping costs, but they're minimal compared to the huge labor savings. Now the price of widgets drops even more thanks to company C, company A and B have competition like they've never seen...what should company A and B do now?
Easy. Compete by making a more difficult to manufacture widget. That probably requires paying a bit more than a burger flippers wage though. Management will never figure this out and the company will probably go bankrupt. There's a massive luxury goods market, and it's only growing. Why can't Americans manufacture high end products? Maybe our gifted CEOs and management can't bring themselves to manufacture anything but cheap, breakable garbage?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioRules
Wrong again.
The average manufacturing company in the U.S. spends 50% of its budget on taxes and govt regulations. They spend 7-10% on wages. They move to get away from our government.
Let's say you're correct though. Why are unions in the U.S. fighting for higher wages? Doesn't that just ship jobs to China?
I'd rather have a job that pays $12/hour than no job at all. When my union goes in and demands $15 why should I be surprised if they moved to China? Or just shut dowm altogether.
Thanks unions. You've made manufacturing wages so high I can't work in my field anymore. Unless I move to China.
Still plenty of manufacturing jobs around. You just gotta work for $8/hr through a temp agency, and you better habla espanol.
Gee, wonder why manufacturing workers in Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, etc can earn a middle class income, but our gifted CEOs and management in this country can't do the same??? Unions have nothing to do with it.
What lie are you referring to? That's just how the system works. I'd much rather have capitalism with a healthy union environment than a socialist economy.
So now employees cannot even bargain individually??? This doesn't sound like capitalism at all. More like some bizzare form of fascism or something. Labor is a resource. The business man requires this resource to make money. Prices are negotiable. Deal with it.
Capitalism would have been the federal government keeping out of it.
If there were a true value to unionization, it would happen organically.
I would rather see workers and business battle than see government force unions on everyone,
Not every union member wants to be part of the union.
Yet again, what is the actual value of an average employee in today's flooded low skilled employee pool?
What is the value of ANY employee?
You stated that you earn a good living doing whatever it is you do on your little computer in your little cubicle.
I bet I could master your job in a couple of months and provide the same or better service to your employer. I bet 90% of the guys I work with could too.
This is what we do, we are good at our jobs and they are very high skilled jobs where one mistake could kill a coworker or yourself.
Why is it that people always have to have someone to feel superior to? Just because we wear jeans and drive big trucks for our jobs doesn't make us worthless.
So now employees cannot even bargain individually??? This doesn't sound like capitalism at all. More like some bizzare form of fascism or something. Labor is a resource. The business man requires this resource to make money. Prices are negotiable. Deal with it.
I believe capitalism IS a form of fascism. There's no freedom in capitalism. It consists of rule by the powerful, and bully-take-all is the method by which it operates.
I would rather see workers and business battle than see government force unions on everyone,[/b]
Not every union member wants to be part of the union.
In RTW states, in unionized environments, on average 55-60% of employees elgible to join the union DO NOT join. Thank God, their rights were not violated and they were given the freedom to make this choice.
Freedom is beautiful.
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