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Health care was already costing $2.7 trillion in 2011 and increasing at 3.9%. That is $8,680 per person. More importantly, we are paying twice as much as other developed countries but we are not getting better outcomes for our money. If people cannot see that this situation is unsustainable then they are either blind, stupid or being paid by the healthcare lobby.
Oh golly; as an observer I know which one of those I'd put my money on!
This Obamacare appears to be a nightmare for all. Cut out all the CEO's and private jets and just create a national healthcare insurance plan.
All you have to do is present your ID card with your SS to get treatment.
Taxes pay the way. Keep all hospitals and clinics private, competing enterprises but payment comes from national healthcare.
Fines for being overweight and smoking.
Illegals/non-citizens get treatment but the US sends a bill to whatever country they came from. If they don't pay it, the US deducts that amount from any financial aid they send them.
Seems much more simple than Obamacare and I promise you it would cost all of us half of what this nightmare HC system/non system we have going now.
Let's give people free healthcare so they can stay healthy and get to work and make America a better country.
Communism doesn't equate to fairness. Go read your history.
This is not a solution, as wall street firms will simply move their trades to foreign exchanges, and you'll have no wall street industry in the US left, period.
Even as a conservative, I support the concept of single payor but not until all illegals are removed - including retro-actively for anchor babies, and immigration is basically stopped at pre-1965 levels. All those who are claiming how the US is the "only modern democracy without a public single payor system" neglects to mention how the country has grown from 200 million to 300 million in 35 years. You cannot have a functioning country with a massive government program that expands its population at that rate, you just have too many 3rd-worlders moving in to collect welfare benefits and free healthcare, and I'm not willing to pay for that BS any more.
That said, I've found most conservatives are quite anti-government until they get their first doctor's/dentist's bill for $6K of which only 20% is covered by their insurance plan, then they become less ideological.
It is a solution, actually. Where are they going to move to? Europe? Too bad for them, the EU, unlike here, is actively talking about implementing such a tax EU wide. France and the UK, and possibly a few other major countries in the EU already do this and yet the financiers haven't fled. You guys need to learn one thing and learn it well, the rich are not going to up sticks and move en masse to countries where there isn't money. The US offers one thing, and that is the biggest market in the world in terms of purchasing power. There is a lot of money to be made here, we're not some 3rd World trash heap where we need to cut taxes and regulations to the bone to attract business. We're the New York City to the world's.....I don't know, Mississippi. You don't see businesses flocking to Mississippi like crazy, do you, even though New York City is vastly more expensive? This is how the real world works, not by some tea party formula which says oh the rich will move straight away if we advance on a little something. The rich are not fleeing the country when the Bush tax cuts expired, so I doubt we need to worry.
By the way, New York State already charges a tax on financial transactions on Wall St., but it's a fraction of one percent and because of lobbying pressure, the state refunds the money back to Wall St.
You also way overestimate how much illegal aliens actually cost the US. In the future, retired Baby Boomers will put a catastrophically bigger strain on the budget than illegal aliens. Add in the fact that it's impossible to catch and deport every single illegal. So no, we're moving ahead first, the illegals can wait. There are Americans dying because they can't afford healthcare.
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Originally Posted by BruSan
And giving people Universal healthcare would not equate to communism either. Go read your history.
I wasn't aware that every single country in the Americas, bar the US, was communist using that logic
It is a solution, actually. Where are they going to move to? Europe?
Yes, they will move - as many of my clients have moved overseas, to the UK, Singapore, Dubai, etc., to places that have exchanges with potentially far lower tax structures. Further, it is easily possible to trade on overseas markets and not pay US-based taxes. If I use a foreign-based entity to make trades in a foreign exchange, then there is nothing for the US to tax except the cell phone plan the call was made on.
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Too bad for them, the EU, unlike here, is actively talking about implementing such a tax EU wide. France and the UK, and possibly a few other major countries in the EU already do this and yet the financiers haven't fled.
Europe is broke, and its pensions plans are collapsing as they are wholly underfunded. You cannot provide the level of retirement payments for people who hardly worked (35 hours in France) and not go bankrupt.
A better example is probably Canada, where no one wants to become a doctor due to the low salaries, there are long waits for any kind of special services, and this is for a country of 20 million - I cannot even begin to imagine what a disaster it would be to administer for 300 million.
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You guys need to learn one thing and learn it well, the rich are not going to up sticks and move en masse to countries where there isn't money.
When you are wealthy (like my clients) you have lots of mobility, and that means spending little time in a particular tax jurisdiction, which translates to not being a resident of that city/state/country, which translates to not being heavily taxed there. A good example is Florida, which has tried to screw over non-residents with higher real estate taxes, and is now enjoying one of the nation's worst real estate markets. Tax policies most certainly have an impact overall.
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We're the New York City to the world's.....I don't know, Mississippi. You don't see businesses flocking to Mississippi like crazy, do you, even though New York City is vastly more expensive?
I've lived in NYC for over fifty years, and the city has already once declared bankruptcy, and likely will again in the next 5-10 years. The rise in pension and health care costs for current and retired employees is going to drive the city back into insolvency.
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By the way, New York State already charges a tax on financial transactions on Wall St., but it's a fraction of one percent and because of lobbying pressure, the state refunds the money back to Wall St.
Do you have any idea how easy it is to relocate a firm from Manhattan to Jersey City and trade from there?
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You also way overestimate how much illegal aliens actually cost the US.
Illegal aliens have ALREADY caused hospitals to close, both in NYC and elsewhere. Look up St. Vincent's in NYC.
Yes, they will move - as many of my clients have moved overseas, to the UK, Singapore, Dubai, etc., to places that have exchanges with potentially far lower tax structures. Further, it is easily possible to trade on overseas markets and not pay US-based taxes. If I use a foreign-based entity to make trades in a foreign exchange, then there is nothing for the US to tax except the cell phone plan the call was made on.
Europe is broke, and its pensions plans are collapsing as they are wholly underfunded. You cannot provide the level of retirement payments for people who hardly worked (35 hours in France) and not go bankrupt.
A better example is probably Canada, where no one wants to become a doctor due to the low salaries, there are long waits for any kind of special services, and this is for a country of 20 million - I cannot even begin to imagine what a disaster it would be to administer for 300 million.
When you are wealthy (like my clients) you have lots of mobility, and that means spending little time in a particular tax jurisdiction, which translates to not being a resident of that city/state/country, which translates to not being heavily taxed there. A good example is Florida, which has tried to screw over non-residents with higher real estate taxes, and is now enjoying one of the nation's worst real estate markets. Tax policies most certainly have an impact overall.
I've lived in NYC for over fifty years, and the city has already once declared bankruptcy, and likely will again in the next 5-10 years. The rise in pension and health care costs for current and retired employees is going to drive the city back into insolvency.
Do you have any idea how easy it is to relocate a firm from Manhattan to Jersey City and trade from there?
Illegal aliens have ALREADY caused hospitals to close, both in NYC and elsewhere. Look up St. Vincent's in NYC.
You can anecdotally say many of your clients have moved overseas, but the overall picture still remains the vast majority of rich STILL decide to live here, and don't look like they are moving anytime soon. Provide me hard data that the rich are fleeing in droves, so much that the US is starting to crumble because people who hardly pay any taxes to begin with are pouring out of our borders. I'll wait. Anecdotes mean nothing, and that is what you are basing this part of your post on.
They are only broke because they are aging in population. France was doing fine until 2008, when derivatives caused the world's finances to explode, not pension plans. That is MSM bobbledeegook.
That's because you have the US right at your doorstep that makes immigration much easier if you are an educated professional like a doctor, to move here. If the US had a healthcare system similar to Canada's, the problem would not exist, it would be like Europe where there is nowhere to move to for substantially higher salaries unless you move to the US. Canada has 30 million people, by the way.
And like I said before, federal financial transaction tax will prevent Wall St. from moving to NJ. I'm aware that they have threatened to move to NJ if New York started to actually keep the money they tax, which is why we need a federal transaction tax.
So? Like you said, NYC already declared bankruptcy before, so they were insolvent before. I still don't see the city emptying out and moving to more "fiscally responsible" cities in the neo-Confederacy. Which proves one thing, the whole media narrative of public debt is vastly overstated and not as big a deal as it is made out to be.
Again, I'll reiterate. Federal transaction tax.
Just imagine what tens of millions of Baby Boomers will do yes hospitals have closed down, but most of the nation's hospitals are still open. You still won't be able to deport every single illegal alien unless you drop the conservative ideology is kissing the "job creators" in the behind and institute draconian financial measures, with strict enforcement, to combat the problem. Hating brown people is not going to solve the illegal immigration problem.
This Obamacare appears to be a nightmare for all. Cut out all the CEO's and private jets and just create a national healthcare insurance plan.
All you have to do is present your ID card with your SS to get treatment.
Taxes pay the way. Keep all hospitals and clinics private, competing enterprises but payment comes from national healthcare.
Fines for being overweight and smoking.
Illegals/non-citizens get treatment but the US sends a bill to whatever country they came from. If they don't pay it, the US deducts that amount from any financial aid they send them.
Seems much more simple than Obamacare and I promise you it would cost all of us half of what this nightmare HC system/non system we have going now.
Let's give people free healthcare so they can stay healthy and get to work and make America a better country.
Nationalized health care as you suggest is certainly better than the Obamacare disaster.
But as to illegals and non-citizens, WHY ARE WE SENDING ANY FOREIGN AID WHEN WE ARE PAYING INTEREST ON A $17 FEDERAL TRILLION DEBT, and when there is literally no hope of Big Government EVER getting to the point where they won't be adding more debt every year? It's the same thing as you overspending so much that you can barely afford paying the minimum balances on your credit cards, and then borrowing thousands more to give to countless "charities" that you KNOW are nothing more than fronts for terrorist organizations.
The stupidity/corruption of our leaders in Washington is beyond comprehension. The role of government is to provide necessary public services--NOT TAKE OVER THE ROLE OF CHARITY. If private citizens want to give to a charity, it is far better to give it directly and only lose the charity's overhead costs, rather than allow Big Government to skim off 70% on top of the charity's overhead.
NOT YOURS TO GIVE: If you have no problem with government officials being able to give away YOUR money to whatever charities they choose, you really need to read this very entertaining rendition of the speech that Davy Crocket gave to the House of Representatives (this may not be the actual speech, but his speech argued the same points): Page Title
The issue was a proposal was to give the widow of distinguished naval officer additional (taxpayer) money, even though the officer and his estate had been paid everything due to it. Crockett argued "We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar of the public money...I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and, if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bill asks." According to the story, the Washington politicians saw the error of their ways, and did not give away the taxpayer's money. But in reality, of course, they voted to donate the taxpayers money, but not a penny of of their own. Jim's Corner: "Not Yours to Give": A Fable Re-Examined
It is truly a tragedy for our nation that even in Crockett's time, most of the other Washington politicians had NO honor, NO ability to see reasonable limits on giving away taxpayer's money (even when clearly presented to them), and NO charity when it came to giving away their OWN money.
And it proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the only way to have a government that does not frivolously waste taxpayer's dollars is to severely restrict the ABILITY of government to confiscate more than the absolute minimum needed to provide necessary public services. With income tax, that can never happen.
And giving people Universal healthcare would not equate to communism either. Go read your history.
Nationalizing health insurance is communism.
The proposal is that the "state take over the means of production" where the health insurance industry ceases to be privately owned. The state then represents the wants of the common working man and provides them with their needs.
That's because you have the US right at your doorstep that makes immigration much easier if you are an educated professional like a doctor, to move here. If the US had a healthcare system similar to Canada's, the problem would not exist, it would be like Europe where there is nowhere to move to for substantially higher salaries unless you move to the US. Canada has 30 million people, by the way.
And like I said before, federal financial transaction tax will prevent Wall St. from moving to NJ. I'm aware that they have threatened to move to NJ if New York started to actually keep the money they tax, which is why we need a federal transaction tax.
It is difficult to immigrate to the USA if you don't have a family (anchor baby?) member here. Australia and Canada actually have a skills based assessment that you accumulate points based on your skills. As a result, educated professionals can move to Australia or Canada, but not to the USA. Americans prefer maids and ditch diggers.
The laws of economics reign supreme over every country and every person in the world; medicine is not different in this regard.
Per the transaction tax, it has been explained to you at least ten times why that would be a bad idea yet you continue with your zeal for taxing risk management. If I buy European stock I expose myself to currency risk, but a derivative can help me lock in the exchange rate. Yeah, let's tax that, it's not like I can move my money to Singapore.
So really what you are proposing is to get rid of all health insurance and combine medicaid/medicare and that's the insurance everyone in America gets. Then tack on some type of premium..based on what..income ?
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