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We'll have to agree to disagree about that. I hope you're ready, willing and able to do that..
Evidently...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
Wrong. I provided moral arguments that you simply don't like. I can live with you not liking them. Can you?.
No, what you provided is your opinion with nothing to back it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
No: Your reckless aspersion was a ridiculous projection. That's the second time you've failed to comprehend what you replied to. I'm beginning to suspect that you're deliberately not reading or not caring to read for content some messages you're replying to.
How embarrassing for you to post this nonsense in regard to an incident where you simply failed to comprehend what you were replying to. You should focus more on the reading and less on the personal attacks..
I comprehend just fine, I provided facts, not opinions, this is where you are trying to think what the the other meant...which you have failed...
You really need to go back and read your postings before talking about anyone personal attacks..
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
Your exact word was "those". Taking that word by itself, outside the context of the rest of the sentence and the rest of the thread it is meaningless. I know that you know what point I'm making. I also respect your right to refuse to admit that you understand, since it would decimate the inane nonsense that you're posting here. ..
Here we go, the left wing play on words. I provide the entire quote, there is no misconception of what was said, they were very clear and to the point. What does "Every American" mean to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
Your exact word was "those". Taking that word by itself, outside the context of I never refer to another poster as a RWNJ. There's a difference between an attack on a idea and an attack on another poster. I'm sorry you're unable to realize the difference. We're suppose to be discussing ideas. You earn infractions and get banned for attacking other posters...
Ahhhh, so you call all people on the right RWNJs and that is o.k., but when I tell you your head is in the sand, that is against the TOS.
Well, I'll tell ya, when you are able to provide a posting without RWNJs in it, then maybe we can discuss...until then...
Why do I try? Mostly it's because it's funny to see them try to form an argument.
You try and fail, you bring excuses...not fact...
Fact:
Obama said "My plan begins by covering every Americans." Yes or no?
Fatc:
CBO states 30 million will be uninsured. Yes or no?
Quote:
“My plan begins by covering every American. If you already have health
insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount
of money you will spend on premiums. That will be less,” Obama said in his May
2007 speech unveiling his health care plan.
This is actually not precisely true. The legislation that President Reagan signed into law actually shifts the burden of those costs onto other people who are currently suffering their own health problems: Essentially those costs are passed along as overhead on every other bill for hospital services, basically kicking people when they're down. The legislation that President Obama signed into law, by contrast, works to prevent that injustice, by spreading that cost more broadly so no one is burdened more than they can withstand, and no one is deliberately kicked while they're down
I'm starting to get the feeling that a significant portion of the opposition... might be those very people who are just angry that they can't get "free" hospital visits anymore...
Um, Glenda Bell is working. Where did I say she is greedy or a leach? A government health plan that she can purchase is just fine. I pay for mine and have no problem with something others can pay for too.
I have no idea who Glenda Bell is. I tried to click on her name and only got a picture. Page wouldn't load. I will look her up though.
Short story: She's one of the multitudes of working poor, who were victims of the structural economic injustice in our society.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719
I do not feel that people should be forced to take care of others.
I do not feel that people should feel that contributing a portion to the society that affords them the ability to earn money is being "forced" to do anything. It's just natural to pay rent when you use a piece of land, and in the same way it is naturally to pay "rent" when you use the economic system furnished, fostered and maintained by society to aggrandize yourself. Some may relish the idea of a society ruled by who has the biggest guns and the least morals, willing to take whatever isn't nailed down and guarded and willing to subjugate anyone who isn't as powerful or lucky as they are. I don't relish the idea of such a Randian dystopia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719
My choices have led me to where I am.
Only in part. If you're objecting to what I'm saying, it'll probably take a lot of work, face-to-face, to get your to acknowledge that more went into it than just your own choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719
Am I comfortable? No. Am I keeping my head above water while taking care of my family? Yes. That is my job and my responsibility. I choose what to donate to, when I can.
Great. But this isn't about you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719
I've personally seen too many abuses of the handout systems we have in place.
Then focus on fixing the abuses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719
I don't think punishing those that make this country run (taxpayers) helps anyone.
It isn't punishment. Only the cynical work of the right-wing to corrupt social obligation into punishment. Many people work for someone else. Do you call it punishment that workers have to spend eight hours a day at work? Of course not: It's part of the deal: You have to work the hours. It's an obligation, not punishment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719
I like the system in place in Bermuda. You have to work at something to get help. It doesn't include the disabled.
Why don't we have the same system here? I'll give you a hint: It is the right-wing that won't pay the price to put Bermuda's system in place, as operational and effective as it is there, here.
Bingo. That would be a hand up. Someone that has just lost their job is not in the same lines as someone that has never had one and makes their livelihood on hand outs. They have worked and are looking to work again. I have nothing against unemployment or any other temporary help. Key word being temporary.
And if you're disabled and unable to work?
Out on the streets with you, eh?
No, what you provided is your opinion with nothing to back it up.
Now you're quibbling over the semantic difference between "moral argument" and "opinion". So I guess you realize that you cannot refute what I've posted on the merits, so you're going to be picking nits and trying to equivocate over the meaning of the word "is".
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
I comprehend just fine
No, you didn't. You clearly didn't understand what I meant by projection. If you cannot admit that much, then there is no sense in regarding any of your comments with sufficient merit to warrant a response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
I provided facts, not opinions
You've provided references to data that you imply mean something that they don't. Again, if you cannot admit that you're absolutely projecting an opinion, then there is no sense in regarding any of your comments with sufficient merit to warrant a response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
You really need to go back and read your postings before talking about anyone personal attacks..
I actually do reread every message I post for just that reason, to make sure that nothing I wrote could be construed as a personal attack on another poster. You should start that practice yourself. I make very sure that whatever I attack is an idea, a perspective or some public figure. I comply with the rules here... will you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
Here we go, the left wing play on words.
A humorous contention, given how I've already pointed out how you've been playing with words.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
I provide the entire quote
Let's test the integrity of your claim that that quote includes the entire context of the quote. UPDATED:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
Quote:
“My plan begins by covering every American. If you already have health
insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount
of money you will spend on premiums. That will be less,” Obama said in his May
2007 speech unveiling his health care plan.
Precisely. His plan did provide for that. His plan was not approved by Congress due to Republican objections. Instead a compromise was reached, and even then, the compromise was further mitigated by court action and obstructionism in its implementation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
Ahhhh, so you call all people on the right RWNJs and that is o.k., but when I tell you your head is in the sand, that is against the TOS.
I didn't call "all people on the right" RWNJs. This is the third time you've shown that you clearly didn't read or didn't comprehend what you are replying to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee
Well, I'll tell ya, when you are able to provide a posting without RWNJs in it, then maybe we can discuss...until then...
I'll let you dictate how I refer to Republican governors and state legislators that refuse to expand Medicare as outlined in ACA when you're elected god, not before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseyt719
Um, Glenda Bell is working.
In a job that doesn't pay enough to keep her off public assistance.
Short story: She's one of the multitudes of working poor, who were victims of the structural economic injustice in our society.
I do not feel that people should feel that contributing a portion to the society that affords them the ability to earn money is being "forced" to do anything. It's just natural to pay rent when you use a piece of land, and in the same way it is naturally to pay "rent" when you use the economic system furnished, fostered and maintained by society to aggrandize yourself. Some may relish the idea of a society ruled by who has the biggest guns and the least morals, willing to take whatever isn't nailed down and guarded and willing to subjugate anyone who isn't as powerful or lucky as they are. I don't relish the idea of such a Randian dystopia.
Only in part. If you're objecting to what I'm saying, it'll probably take a lot of work, face-to-face, to get your to acknowledge that more went into it than just your own choices.
Great. But this isn't about you.
Then focus on fixing the abuses.
It isn't punishment. Only the cynical work of the right-wing to corrupt social obligation into punishment. Many people work for someone else. Do you call it punishment that workers have to spend eight hours a day at work? Of course not: It's part of the deal: You have to work the hours. It's an obligation, not punishment.
Why don't we have the same system here? I'll give you a hint: It is the right-wing that won't pay the price to put Bermuda's system in place, as operational and effective as it is there, here.
You and I have different ideologies on this. I don't consider working as punishment. It's an agreement. I agree to work the hours and the employer agrees to pay me for those hours. Any time I'm unhappy with the agreement, I can leave.
You look at the right as greedy. I don't see it that way. I see the leaches as greedy. I don't think the left would agree to a system like Bermuda's. They'd lose votes.
I think everyone has to put something in to get something out. We have far too many handouts. I'm all for a hand up but there are too many that are too greedy to participate in their own lives.
We have so many programs available. Here in NJ we have retraining opportunities just like Glenda Bell did in order to find a new job. There is nothing wrong with that at all.
As far as working to correct abuses goes, I do. It's called taxes. I pay them and that pays for the safeguards that are supposed to be there.
I feel that there needs to be less handouts and more responsibility.
So will a unemployed person be required to get health insurance???
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