Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Libertarian Party has outlined basic tenets for some time, starting with the "non-coercion principle."
Again, the problem is that, on the right, libertarianism has become "chic," and has consequently attracted a bunch of people who know little to nothing about it, but claim the label.
That is 100% true that those people exist, but it doesn't address the people who criticize libertarianism who know nothing about it. That's what this thread is about.
First, you are totally free to criticize libertarian principles. Feel free, I don't care, give it your best shot. But allow me to place these on the table:
1) Can you please read and understand what libertarianism is before you criticize it? You can really gain a lot of knowledge by reading and understanding what it is that you are criticizing, especially if you read the logic that leads up to it. In fact, you can strengthen your own views and come better armed in a discussion. For example, if you want to criticize the libertarian non-interventionist foreign policy, criticize non-interventionism. Don't tack isolationism on us, and then tell us how wrong we are to believe in it.
2) We believe in a government that exists to protect our individual Constitutional rights, maintain law and order, provide defense for this nation, and provide a legal, social and infrastructural framework to ensure the integrity of a market based economy. We believe in government that is as local as possible because we believe the most change can occur there because it is more accessible. Wherein it is more efficient for the government role to be at the state level (college education), we believe the state government should handle it. Wherein it is more efficient for the government role to be at the federal level (defense), we believe the federal government should handle that. The key takeaway is bolded: "We believe in a government..."
3) The fact that libertarianism hasn't been "implemented in other countries" is probably one of the most ridiculous criticisms ever. What the heck does that even mean? Is there a list of libertarian things that governments should do to implement libertarianism. You don't implement anything, it's not a framework, and just because it has been "implemented" doesn't mean anything or give any validity toward your attempt to debase the ideology. Slavery was "implemented" in many places, what does that have to say about that argument? Are "implemented" things more valid or something?
Can you name any real accomplishments by any Libertarians?
No, the problem isn't that critics don't understand libertarianism, it's that you guys usually don't know it.
You mean like when:
we are called RWNJ's?
people say we are anarchists?
people claim we want no government at all?
people claim we want to cut all social nets?
people claim we are puppets of the Koch brothers?
we say we want schools privatized and are called heretics?
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey
Also libertarianism attracts a lot of white supremacists. You guys will never be taken seriously if you carry that bunch on the wagon.
or total BS like that!
You mean those critics?
Please don't pretend to be a well informed expert on Libertarian views. The very nature of Libertarianism is that each person is unique and perfectly capable of self governing. We do not need a nanny watching over us to make sure we do what the nanny decides is right. We believe in the freedom of each person to believe what they wish to believe. This makes Libertarians the only truly tolerant ones.
Libertarians are not “left” or “right” or a combination of the two. Libertarians believe that on every issue you have the right to decide for yourself what’s best for you and to act on that belief, so long as you simply respect the right of other people to do the same.
In other words "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
Libertarianism is the only political movement that consistently advocates a high degree of both personal and economic liberty.
Most questions aren't worth answering because many people don't know about it. They pin things to us that we really don't believe.
You must not be as knowledgeable as you think if you think there's a consensus on things you have to believe.
All I am asking is that critics argue the actual tenants.
So far you aren't producing any tenets of what you actually believe, or that are libertarian in nature.
The only thing you are grousing about is that people assign beliefs to you that you don't agree with.
People like you are the root of the problem you are complaining about. You can't express your own beliefs, and you don't seem to understand what the tenets of libertarianism are well enough to even argue them. You call yourself libertarian because I guess it sounds cool. When challenged to state your beliefs you seem to just ignore it. It's the behavior of a pre-teen trying to fit in with a group because they don't fit anywhere else...not because they actually know anything about what others in the group actually believe in.
Heck, if I was a libertarian I would be embarrassed to have someone this ignorant associated with me.
The problem for libertarians is that there are so many different groups of people that lay claim to the title. Lately it seems the bulk of supposed libertarians are in reality just the far right religious wacko wing of the GOP.
Is Glenn Beck and his anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-Muslim, pro-war stances a libertarian?
Why are so many libertarians aligned with the Tea Party movement? The same Tea Party that consistently takes an anti-freedom approach on things like gay marriage or drug prohibition and that has many members that are part of the religious right and that fully support their authoritarianism.
What about Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann, they use the title are they truly representative of libertarianism?
Even on C-D, you will find self proclaimed libertarians that support things like border fences and harsh crackdowns on undocumented immigrants. Positions that are the exact opposite of the pro-freedom stance of the actual Libertarian Party.
They also have a hard time distinguishing between anti-federalists and libertarians. The fact is that Ron Paul is not a libertarian. He's an anti-federalist.
It's not that people don't understand what libertarianism means. It's just the rapid inconsistencies with those who are self described libertarians.
Most libertarians I've met are men. (Edit: ALL) They're men who are nihilists. They think that their actions affect no one. They have absolutely no economic platform aside from "taxes are bad." They want to shut down public schools. Most sane people, even most Republicans, don't buy this crap.
I agree with some of their social positions on things like gay marriage. Their foreign policy positions are sometimes good, but their nagging feeling that everyone is an island is sometimes dangerous.
Most libertarians I've met are men. (Edit: ALL) They're men who are nihilists. They think that their actions affect no one. They have absolutely no economic platform aside from "taxes are bad." They want to shut down public schools. Most sane people, even most Republicans, don't buy this crap.
I agree with some of their social positions on things like gay marriage. Their foreign policy positions are sometimes good, but their nagging feeling that everyone is an island is sometimes dangerous.
You mean like when:
we are called RWNJ's?
people say we are anarchists?
people claim we want no government at all?
people claim we want to cut all social nets?
people claim we are puppets of the Koch brothers?
we say we want schools privatized and are called heretics?
You mean those critics? Please don't pretend to be a well informed expert on Libertarian views. The very nature of Libertarianism is that each person is unique and perfectly capable of self governing. We do not need a nanny watching over us to make sure we do what the nanny decides is right. We believe in the freedom of each person to believe what they wish to believe. This makes Libertarians the only truly tolerant ones.
Libertarians are not “left” or “right” or a combination of the two. Libertarians believe that on every issue you have the right to decide for yourself what’s best for you and to act on that belief, so long as you simply respect the right of other people to do the same.
In other words "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
Libertarianism is the only political movement that consistently advocates a high degree of both personal and economic liberty.
I am a Centrist, just like I end up on every one of these quizes. Oh, maybe you did not notice that they did not put Libertarains in the middle that means they are not in the center on issues but at one of the ends/extremes, very telling.
Oh, still waiting to see that list of accomplishments by the Libertarians
Also libertarianism attracts a lot of white supremacists. You guys will never be taken seriously if you carry that bunch on the wagon.
Christianity probably has more white supremacists than libertarians do.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
