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Shutting the government down, and limiting spending and deficits is something our children needs, and thus our country.
To pretend trillion dollar deficits is good, is pretty dumb..
I note how many lefties cant think for themself though, using those keywords given to them by the administration, hostage... etc..
grow up and stop repeating talking points, thats childish..
Talking points are generally based on facts, even if they are spun to the purposes of the talkers. Here's the fact in this case: No matter how we got here, raising the debt ceiling allows us to pay commitments we've already made. It's not like increasing the limit on a credit card. If we don't do it, we default on those commitments and our credit and trustworthiness as a nation takes a blow. If the government shuts down, too, that's another warning re our solvency and dependability and the billions of dollars lost hurt our own economy. Both sides of the aisle, even the fringe seats, know this. They don't want either of these things to happen. They create all the drama for the benefit of an under-informed voter base. Again, on BOTH sides, which is why it happens no matter which party is in power.
If the Tea Party is forced to "put the gun down" by Wall Street, that's fine by me. I loathe those bloodsucking fatcats like anybody else, but on rare occasions where their interests also protect the rest of us, I'll gladly welcome their exercise of power because the common person has none.
The debt ceiling increase is supposed to happen by default, to match the spending that Congress already appropriated. Republicans are threatening to stall it because they know their low-information voters are stupid enough to think that they're making a stand against government spending and will somehow eliminate the deficit.
Wrong, budgets are not appropriations..
Budgets are the MAXIMUM spending limits, but appropriations dont happen until the expenses actually occur.. Stop repeating the same old talking points and learn something about basic accounting.
For example, if you budget $2,000 a month for a home, but then rent your moms basement for $300 a month, this doesnt mean you owe your mother $2,000 a month.. Thats the argument the Democrats are arguing..
its one of the dumbest things I've heard in my life, well nearly as dumb as people proclaiming its true.
Talking points are generally based on facts, even if they are spun to the purposes of the talkers. Here's the fact in this case: No matter how we got here, raising the debt ceiling allows us to pay commitments we've already made. It's not like increasing the limit on a credit card. If we don't do it, we default on those commitments and our credit and trustworthiness as a nation takes a blow. If the government shuts down, too, that's another warning re our solvency and dependability and the billions of dollars lost hurt our own economy. Both sides of the aisle, even the fringe seats, know this. They don't want either of these things to happen. They create all the drama for the benefit of an under-informed voter base. Again, on BOTH sides, which is why it happens no matter which party is in power.
If the Tea Party is forced to "put the gun down" by Wall Street, that's fine by me. I loathe those bloodsucking fatcats like anybody else, but on rare occasions where their interests also protect the rest of us, I'll gladly let them use their power because the common person has none.
WRONG.. There is no committments until expenses are actually incurred.
Federal employees that might be laid off due to a shut down, are not entitled to be paid, UNTIL THEY ACTUALLY WORK...
Simply budgeting for their salaries is not a committment..
Your talking points, arent based upon reality, just like most Democratic ones nowadays.
I will gladly concede, I hate that our government spends in such a way that the system works like this at all. But it is what it is...sorry for the cliche. It's a whole separate issue from the threat of a shutdown this OP is addressing.
No matter how we got here, raising the debt ceiling allows us to pay commitments we've already made.
This is a false/misleading statement. We don't have to raise the debt ceiling and can still pay our commitments. It will mean cuts in other areas but holding the line does not mean not paying our bills. This is a common misconception promoted by those who have an agenda.
Quote:
Budgets are the MAXIMUM spending limits, but appropriations dont happen until the expenses actually occur..
Technically not accurate. Appropriations are for both actual and estimated expenses - more estimated based on budgeted forecasts.
The debt ceiling increase is supposed to happen by default, to match the spending that Congress already appropriated. Republicans are threatening to stall it because they know their low-information voters are stupid enough to think that they're making a stand against government spending and will somehow eliminate the deficit.
NOPE ..... it's not by "default", but it was always done when Congress (both House & Senate) passed a Budget and it was signed into law. We no long have Budgets passed by Congress (House & Senate) - we now have Continuing Resolutions to past Budgets - in this case it's the Budget Act of 2011, which was a Continuing Resolution to a past Budget itself. The Congress (House & Senate) has not passed a real Budget since 2009 when the Trillion dollar Stimulus Plan was added to the Budget. That's why our Debt and deficit has increased so much ..... we are paying that Trillion dollars that was added with the Stimulus Bill each and every year again .... it's now just a slush fund.
The last time we raised the Debt Ceiling was with the Budget Control Act of 2011 -- Obama demanded the largest Debt Ceiling hike in the history of the USA. $2.3 Trillion dollars to get him past the 2012 election. This time he and Harry Reid decided they would not allow the Debt Ceiling to be including in yet another CR to fund the government at the end of the Fiscal year ..... so they will take us to the brink twice this year.
First with the Fiscal year CR, since we are no longer allowed to have a real budget and second with the Debt Ceiling hike, which they have not told us yet how much Obama is demanding.
Posters are confusing the two issues - I can't figure out why people don't understand the difference between the Fiscal year Budget and the Debt Ceiling and what the ramifications for each of these are.
It can't be. We can argue that a bit of an an increase is inevitable but it is now a given that the government will grow and grow and grow and it simply must be so.
I will gladly concede, I hate that our government spends in such a way that the system works like this at all. But it is what it is...sorry for the cliche. It's a whole separate issue from the threat of a shutdown this OP is addressing.
Government spending has more than DOUBLED in the last 10 years.. Without that doubling of spending, we wouldnt need to be raising the debt ceiling by the TRILLIONS..
its not a seperate issue...
Government NEEDS to shut down to address the massive excess in spending, the out of control growth, and the fact that we cant substain the debt we are creating.
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