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My wife and I were both firmly in the conservative camp. William Buckley types true and true. I was the first in line to buy 'Dereliction of Duty' about Clinton.
However as the GOP morphed into a social issue driven machine I became far less interested in them. Then we both became firmly independents after Bush threw McCain under the bus on his path to the presidency. As the truth about Iraq emerged I was pretty much done with GOP and the Neo-cons.
Being a veteran I could not ever forget Bush dodging his responsibilities as a soldier, or the fact that none of his 'dream team' including Cheney ever served. Just a bunch of hypocrites as far as I'm concerned.
Then came the tea-party. Buckley is rolling over in his grave.
I'm no fan of liberalism, I'm still very fiscally conservative. I don't buy into Gov't run and mandated health care but I do buy into regulated care and tort reform.
I agree with the OP. I'm never going back unless they can become less socially driven and more fiscally minded. Playing chicken with our debt ceiling IS NOT fiscally responsible. Convincing voters that next election cycle they can fix the economic maladies and reform health care IS. And I ain't seen NONE of that.
This fish ain't buying any of their bait in the water.
Threerun, I am also fiscally conservative and I don't like being forced into a program when I was happy with what I had. I think the government gets enough money but Obama will alway want more. I don't think that is good for anyone. Obama does not have what it takes to got the deal done with an opposing party and it is certainly not by constant attacks or doing things to the people to get his way. He is acting like a dictator and it's dangerous.
The GOP has certainly become more radical post-GWB. I was never a registered Republican, but often voted Republican (Obama was the first Dem I've ever voted for). I just think too much of what the GOP is about is backwards and overwhelmingly far-fetched. The party as a whole needs to become more moderate IMO. Too many fringe far-right wingers in the party, and the list of candidates and representatives in this party reflect that.
Funny thing is, the conservatives tend to show their true colors on forums like this. Instead of developing an outreach and trying to understand how it is they can reinvigorate the base and attract more supporters, they will come here to tell you things like "to hell with you" or "good riddance". They are way too stubborn for their own good and that'll lead to their inevitable demise. A restructuring is certainly needed.
Threerun, I am also fiscally conservative and I don't like being forced into a program when I was happy with what I had. I think the government gets enough money but Obama will alway want more. I don't think that is good for anyone. Obama does not have what it takes to got the deal done with an opposing party and it is certainly not by constant attacks or doing things to the people to get his way. He is acting like a dictator and it's dangerous.
And I don't disagree, however that alone doesn't persuade me to the GOP. I think had Huntsman run for President I would have voted for him but the field doesn't like a moderate. We have to have extremes.
The tea party rose in response to Obama's politics of big government and huge spending.
Not true. It existed before Obama even won the first elections. It was created as as a response to Bush politics of big government and huge spending, and continued when the same policies continued with Obama, and gained support from regular Republicans because it was not their boy doing the damage anymore. The original founders left the movement when it was hijacked by the GOP.
1). They're irrational. Obamacare is the law. Throwing a temper tantrum and shutting down the government (and yes, basically everyone blames the GOP) is a terrible idea. Just suck it up...meet with the Democrats...agree to fund the law...fund the government...move on.
You should really read Article 1 section 7 of the US constitution. It starts out... "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."
Why do you think the framers put in that stipulation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22
2). Using political theatre for these debt ceiling talks every few months is a joke and irresponsible. - Would you rather they just let the democrats get everything they want all the time?
3). The religious wing of the party is absurdly annoying. - I can agree somewhat. But I have become increasingly more respectful of religion in recent years. Its the only thing powerful enough to destroy nationalism. And nationalism needs to be destroyed, badly.
4). Reaganomics is a joke. - I wouldn't call Reaganomics a joke. While I don't believe in giving producers tax-breaks, and forcing individuals and consumers to pay all the taxes(top-down/supply-side). I would actually much rather to just lower taxes across the board. Give everyone low taxes. Laffer Curve my friend.
5). The deficit isn't THAT big of a deal right now...All CBO estimates show that our debts/deficits are sustainable. - Well, don't believe everything the CBO says. It's predictions are about as often correct, as my cats. Our debt is manageable right now because interest rates are so low. If interest rates go up(and they will), then our debt will not be manageable. And thats the problem with the CBO, its estimates are based on current interest rates, or some ridiculously optimistic growth rates. Our debt to GDP ratio is higher than Greece's. The difference is, we are the world's reserve currency, Greece is not. So Greece was having to pay 16% interest on its debt. While the US is paying less than 2%. Which is actually below inflation. That isn't sustainable.
6). The military really doesn't need to be this large. - I agree, but I'm a libertarian. And the Democrats aren't exactly anti-military either. They pretend like they are going to roll back the military when they are campaigning. Then when they get elected, they change absolutely nothing. And sometimes even begin expanding the military. Most of the wars in the 20th century, were waged by leftists. Wilson, FDR, Truman, LBJ. What has Obama done with the military really?
7). It's blind aversion to scienfitic consensus. - Well, a consensus really just means, the majority agrees. It doesn't mean that everyone agrees. Secondly, it ignores the fact that certain scientists make their living on their theories. So they have an eagerness to exaggerate their conclusions for their own benefit. If we take Al Gore for instance. He pushed global warming, because he had money invested in the companies that would benefit if global warming was real and threatening. In the same way that people who produce oil and gas need to draw opposite conclusions for their own livelihood. The reality is always going to be somewhere in the middle.
8). Gay marriage is GOING to be the law of the land one day in the very near future. Get over it. If you aren't gay...don't marry someone of the same sex. - Well, this is a problem of when you disagree with something, your desire to make it illegal. In the same way that people might think alcohol or marijuana is probably not good for humans to consume, and thus they try to make it illegal. Because, on one hand, I think the world would probably be better off if a variety of mind-altering drugs didn't exist. On the other hand, I don't think making them illegal actually works. Thus, one one hand, I don't think gay-marriage is a good idea. I don't think gay couples raising children is a good idea. And I don't think making homosexuality appear normal is a good idea. On the other hand, I would concede that, I don't know if the solution is to try to make it illegal. Or to try to turn them into second-class citizens.
9). They're wildly hypocritical. The party of fiscal restraint....really? See GWB budget 2001-2008.
10). They're war mongerers when their guy is in office...peacenics when the other guy is. - Both parties are hypocrites. When Bush was in power, all you did was hear people from the left complain about our wars. Ever since Obama was elected, the left has been completely silent when it comes to Obama's expansion of the war in Afghanistan. His massive expansion of drone killings, and as a result "collateral damage". And his constant desire to go to war in places like Libya, Yemen, Syria, etc. And continuing to be hostile towards Iran. While never closing down Gitmo. And he even decided you can assassinate American citizens in other countries who are suspected terrorists.
In conclusion, you can hate the Republicans all you want. I hate the Republicans. But your complaints about the GOP aren't exactly convincing me that I should throw support behind the Democrats. And I certainly am not going to just let the democrats do whatever they want if there is a legal basis to resist it.
If you are leaving the GOP for the Democratic party, I think you should reconsider. I think you should study libertarianism more. Especially Milton Friedman. It might give you a better understanding of how to solve the problems of the world. Without creating a slippery slope, where you give the 51% complete license to do whatever they want. For instance, if there was no government(or at least, the government was small and limited), there wouldn't be lobbyists in Washington D.C. Hell, there wouldn't hardly even be a Washington D.C. And especially, it wouldn't be one of the fastest growing, and increasingly one of the wealthiest parts of the country.
After WWII the US was able to tax its way out of enormous debt -- whose share of GDP continued to decline almost uninterruptedly until it reached a historic low in 1980. And we all know what happened then.
After WWII we had no SS or Medicare unfunded liabilities and we actually had manufacturing jobs. The Reagan era debts helped win the Cold War. The collapse of the USSR gave us a period of peace and prosperity until one day in september of '01.
Not true. It existed before Obama even won the first elections. It was created as as a response to Bush politics of big government and huge spending, and continued when the same policies continued with Obama, and gained support from regular Republicans because it was not their boy doing the damage anymore. The original founders left the movement when it was hijacked by the GOP.
Just FYI, the Wikipedia entry doesn't indicate any public protests before 2009. I know that Wikipedia's in no way an authoritative source, but if you're aware of earlier protests, the article could certainly use them for the sake of completeness and accuracy.
I live in a RED state......yes, some are doing really well here......the others are rarely heard of nor have much of a voice.....WE just got a GREAT 5% tax break law passed. It doesn't take much math IQ to figure it out. But, speeches were wonderfully boasted on TV. We're at the bottom of most measured ideals of an American society....or what some of us remember as an American way of life. Times are changing.
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