Why have people come to believe health care is a "right", when it actually isn't? (ethic, attorney)

[Proud2beAMom]

Originally Posted by Taratova

The problem is the poor Americans can't get care because millions of illegals go to the hospital get free care and don't pay a cent.. it is overburdening the healthcare system with too many freebees. Americans are expected to pay yet the illegals are automatically treated to FREE health care.

The percent of unpaid for care in the nation for illegals is not that significant. Most are legal residents or citizens. The exception would be border staters.

[PullMyFinger]

I guess I don't understand the logic behind being poor, unemploymed or under employed and not deserving of health care. It's not free money or goods, it's life. It's like not allowing water or air.

Conservatives just need to feel superior and keep others down.

[Tassy001]

Originally Posted by PullMyFinger

I guess I don't understand the logic behind being poor, unemploymed or under employed and not deserving of health care. It's not free money or goods, it's life. It's like not allowing water or air.

Conservatives just need to feel superior and keep others down.

So the poor, unemployed or underemployed get what....health care they can't afford???

Makes sense to me.....

[Kirdik]

Originally Posted by PullMyFinger

I guess I don't understand the logic behind being poor, unemploymed or under employed and not deserving of health care. It's not free money or goods, it's life. It's like not allowing water or air.

Conservatives just need to feel superior and keep others down.

Health care is a very complex industry. Now, let's proclaim it as a right but what do you mean by that?
Do you mean we have to nationalize the whole industry or what should we do to make sure it's a right?

[theunbrainwashed]

Originally Posted by Roadking2003

So, it's my fault that you got sick? Is that why you think I should pay for your health care?

And by the way, people have been living for centuries without health insurance.

Directly connecting your logic, yes, you got me sick.

For most of human history, healthcare consisted of nothing more than gathering up herbs and conjuring up spirits or drilling holes into your body to release excess fluids thought to cause illness. Very cheap performing those interventions. Argument FAIL

[FancyFeast5000]

Originally Posted by Little-Acorn

Some of our louder liberal fanatics keep claiming that the Supreme Court ruled Obamacare "constitutional". The Supremes didn't, of course. They only looked at one very narrow part - the mandate that forced people to buy insurance or pay stiff penalties if they didn't. And they told the Obama lawyers that that was flatly unconstitutional.

The Obamanites tried to pretend that the government could force people to buy things, and penalize them if they didn't obey, under Congress's power to regulate Interstate Commerce. The Supreme Court flatly told them "No", and even implied bladly that such an idea was un-American:


The Obamanites also tried to pretend that the part of the Constitution saying that Congress could make whatever laws that were "necessary and proper" to carry out its enumerated powers, made it OK for them to command people to buy something they might not buy otherwise. But the SUpreme Court made short work of that dodge, too:


The Supremes later went on to say that if the penalties spelled out in the law, weren't "penalties" but "taxes", then that could barely squeak by. The fact that the Obamanites specifically named them as penalties, and had sworn up and down that there were NO new taxes in the bill, was brushed aside. The Supremes then re-wrote the law from the bench, substituting "taxes" for "penalties", and declared that narrow part of the law Constitutional.

If the Supremes had stuck to their job, and remembered that rewriting was Congress's job, not the courts', they would have simply struck down the mandate as written, with a note to Congress saying they could make it constitutional by changing the penalties to taxes... and then re-voting on the bill in the House and Senate and passing it with the taxes explicitly in place.

But the Supremes apparently decided it was no longer necessary for the House and Senate to vote on amendments to their own acts.

Gee. I just can't understand why the Court didn't consult with you before they made a ruling.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Linda Richards

If you live long enough, at some point you or your spouse or a direct family member will require treatment for something (broken arm, pregnancy, a serious condition which requires surgery otherwise your life could be in jeopardy, etc ...something/anything natural cause, accident, or self inflicted-alco/drug useage for years)

It is no longer the days of Marcus Welby MD or Dr Ben Casey.
A trip to the ER with your husband who fell off a ladder and broke his wrist is not going to cost ~$400 total (doctor fees & everything) as it might have decades ago, but likely at the very least ten times plus... It could be well into five figures.

Now the days of Marcus Welby, where patients would get immediate treatment without regard to whether they had an insurance card denoting some type of coverage. Tell me that I'm incorrect but there have been many many instances of hospital ER's trying to "dump-off' patients to other hosiptals or stall/refuse uncovered patients with serious conditions although maybe not life-threatening at that moment, simply because of the additional burden of unreimbursed cost. Prison inmates and illegal immigrants who are penniless and have no money or ability to pay, do get immediate treatment without any hesitation.
I just don't know, we seem to respect our cats & dogs better than we do our fellow citizens. I'm not saying that pets shouldn't be treated great. They certainly should!!
What I am saying is that human beings should be treated with dignity and respect also!
It is not a crime to be poor or to be at such a point where one does not have the financial means to afford the necessities for survival.
Hey, I know this is going to anger some of you but it needs to be said.
There will always be those who need help with FOOD, SHELTER, and MEDICAL NECESSITIES no matter what!
People do not want to ever be in a position of being in poverty and helpless about their life.
We still have a duty (it's my feeling on the subject) to provide for the minimum basic needs.
We do have PUBLIC schools, for everyone and attendence in some school (pub/private/home school) is MANDATED until 16yrs of age at which they could drop out.
I don't know how many of you are aware that some places in the SOUTH did not provide public schools for Blacks, where there was a public school system in place for Whites. For the most part Richmond County/Augusta GA was this way until just about WWII. "Separate but Equal" existed largely until 1972 as court cases played out, though you had a few blacks in nearly all white schools by the mid-sixties.
This mindset of WE HAVE OURS and WHO GIVES A _ _ _ _ ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE is almost as bad as those who thought that Separate but Equal was great and being against Voting Rights/Medicare/Civil Rights/Fair Housing Law was a good thing.
The South was so backwards before the seventies.
Look how things changed for the better.
The South is a vibrant, beautiful place with very nice towns and cities today.


On the whole "FORCED INSURANCE REQUIREMENT", hey if it doesn't float yer boat, just don't get health insurance and pay the small penalty!
Sure, this may not be the greatest thing as envisioned by those who championed it, but even the piece of DO-DO that it is, is better than NO PLAN!!!
The Teaparty turdheads , that is about all those knubskulls have in their heads for brains as they the teaparty people are so full of ----.
Instead of going back to the stone-age philosophy of I'VE GOT MINE, ********* IF YOU DON'T or if you can't qualify because of pre-existing conditions/past medical history.
Come up with sensible solution(s) that might improve things.
Neither side LEFT or RIGHT has any idea on how to slow down rapidly escalating hospital costs/doctor fees/prescription costs. It is free enterprise/free market commerce so how is it possible??
Ditto for ever escalating annual health insurance policy premiums.....
Health cost escalating yearly as a larger portion of one's annual income/and-or net worth is not a problem that Obama created. It has certainly been significant each year since the 20th century ended.

I'm just saying if you have a better idea than serve it up, but if you want to go back to what was worse, as ins co's could refuse coverage for pre-existing conditions/past medical issues...
.....that is just insane, all because of political stance of Democrats vs Republicans.
We elected all those morons from both parties.
I'm done with any party loyalty and will vote against all tea-party idiots and left-wing nut jobs next time and will favor challenger vs incumbent unless incumbent has actually been moderate and sensible!

Marcus Welby and Ben Casey were fictional characters. Even back in their day, in the 60s, many people went without care b/c they couldn't pay.

Originally Posted by Roadking2003

So, it's my fault that you got sick? Is that why you think I should pay for your health care?

And by the way, people have been living for centuries without health insurance.

That is the lamest line of all. Health care has become more complex as it has become more successful. It's a lot more expensive than it was in the days when the good doctor gave you a large dose of "TLC" and let "God's will" be done.

[rogead]

Originally Posted by Roadking2003

So, it's my fault that you got sick? Is that why you think I should pay for your health care?

And by the way, people have been living for centuries without health insurance.

It's not your fault that someone else gets sick, nor is it my fault if you get sick. However, the reality is that getting sick is part of the human condition, and receiving health care to alleviate that sickness is a basic human need. This is the only developed democracy in the world which has decided that profiting from providing health care is more important than actually providing that health care for the nation's citizens.

One can certainly take the Tea Party/right-wing "libertarian" position that when someone gets sick it is their problem--end of discussion: deal with it yourself or die! The problem with that attitude is that if we applied it to other aspects of our social structure; we wouldn't have schools, roads, bridges, or utilities--other than those constructed and administered by the wealthy to create profit-streams for themselves.

The problem with Obamacare isn't that it went too far, but that it didn't go far enough. Obama wimped-out and made concessions to the insurance industry when he should have pursued a genuine national healthcare plan.

[stan4]

Nothing that forces other people to work on your behalf against their will is a right.

[stan4]

Originally Posted by Proud2beAMom

The percent of unpaid for care in the nation for illegals is not that significant..

Tell that to the people who never get paid by them for the care they provide.