U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Do you favor raising the minimum wage to $9 an hour?
Yes 38 36.89%
No 65 63.11%
Voters: 103. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-15-2013, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,929 posts, read 14,245,993 times
Reputation: 16107

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
With a higher minimum wage, maybe we'd have less working poor that collect welfare.
Your poorly formulated thesis was debunked here....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
For which one of the 1,539 separately functioning economies in the united States?

You're going to raise the federal minimum wage for all of them?

Single persons earning federal minimum wage now are unable to qualify for HUD Section 8 Housing in some areas of the US, due to the fact that their annual income is greater than $9,101.

However, in some of those 1,539 separately functioning economies, a single person can have an annual income of $53,490 and qualify for HUD Section 8.

Let's do the math.....

$7.25/hour * 2,000 hours = $14,500 annually = no HUD Housing in some parts of the US.

$9,100 / 2,000 hours = $4.55/hour.

If a single person earning $4.55/hour is barred from qualifying for HUD Section 8 Housing in some areas of the US...

....then what is the point of doubling their income?

Amused....


Mircea

There are people who earn the federal minimum wage now, and in doing so, they bar themselves from certain "federal benefits."

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Sigh...except in study after study thats not how it works. These things arent related 1-1 at all.
And you just destroyed your own argument.

There is no 1:1 relationship due to the fact that the US is not one economy, rather it is 1,539 separately functioning economies.

The data is averaged by State and reported to the federal government, who then averages the average to report something that really means nothing.

That's why people make really stupid asinine comments like, "Well, I went to shopping mall and it was crowded, so the economy is doing going."

The methodology of all of those studies are flawed, since they look at aggregated data and not data specific or unique to one of the 1,539 separately functioning economies in the US.

Price Elasticity applies to wages/salaries, and is not just limited to prices of goods and services. You can raise the not-so-federal minimum wage in some of those 1,539 separately functioning economies without causing any economic damage.

Then again, if $9 puts makes wages for certain skill-sets elastic, then people lose jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
The argument against rising the minimum wage is that less people will be hired. balancing out the positive effects of rising income. The bottom line is that people feel that its not a net benefit. This part is whats argued by economists, but...that has nothing to do with my point. I think less people being hired who are then subsidized is good, I do not believe we should subsidize companies. I think wages should be sufficient to support someone, or the work is not something that should be done. Period.
What you think is meaningless and irrelevant, and the Laws of Economics don't really care if you exist or not.

The Laws of Economics via the Law of Supply & Demand sets wages and salaries, not you, not unions and certainly not the not-so-federal government.

If you do doubt, then you might want figure out why fast-food workers in some of the 1,539 separately functioning economies earn only the not-so-federal minimum wage, while others in other parts of those 1,539 separately functioning economies earn several dollars an hour higher than the not-so-federal minimum wage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Again I am amazed when conservatives argue this.
I'm amazed that Liberals cannot see that federal minimum wage is an oxymoron.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Sigh...fine lets do this.

.A 10 percent hike in minium wage results in a 0.1 to 0.4% rise in prices. (literally less then 1%)
Minimum Wage Hikes Do Not Cause Inflation
Uh, sorry, but someone needs to REDO FROM START Econ 101.

An increase in wages is inflation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
On the OTHER hand I have seen other studies rate it as high as 4%!
A Survey of the Effects of the Minimum Wage on Prices
Again, the methodology of those studies is flawed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Feel free to back your fantasy up with some reliable data.
I already did, using HUD data.

In some parts of the US, $9,101 is too much money for a single person to qualify for HUD Section 8, while in other parts of the US, $54,900 for a single person gets them a tax-payer subsidized Section 8 Housing.

Are you suggesting that $54,900 is what people earn on the not-so-federal minimum wage?

I sure hope not, because that would be silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
You really dont appear to understand the economics of things.
That would be an excellent description of yourself.

Hey.....I have a great idea....raise minimum wage to $9/hour, because that will help America compete globally against Romanians who earn their national minimum wage of $1.40/hour.......and no, those are not slave wages.....sorry.....start over in Econ 101 and learn something this time.

Economically....

Mircea
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-15-2013, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,534,315 times
Reputation: 27566
I got an idea..tell these min wage workers to stay put for a year and then get that raise.
Every time they up and go to the next FF place they start back at square one...min wage.

A 75% turnover means they are constantly training new hires.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2013, 04:44 PM
 
26,304 posts, read 12,858,710 times
Reputation: 12551
Sigh. so the way to "redudate" my data is to use HUD data, that states that in SOME areas....Why not just find a reputable study that backs up what you say? Oh because by cherry picking you can back up your argument. Got it.

"Raising minimum wage IS inflation"

So? Really? Its a insignificant source of inflation at the numbers we are discussing, and in fact many would argue that at 1.2% its easily arguable that we should do this. And its not a "raise minimum wage by 10%=10% inflation" either.
Source for inflation being low:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/16/bu...for-years.html

Calling me names, cherry picking arguments, insulting my intelligence....this is not having a debate, this is not reasonable discourse. But Im used to it here. Look at the poll, by a 2:1 margin currently the people here are against the idea of raising the minimum wage, whereas the general population is in favor by a 4:1 ratio.
Source:
Most Americans for Raising Minimum Wage

Claiming I am ignorant about economics.....The professionals would disagree with you. More of them think we should then we shouldn't (although by a small margin), and NONE of them that were polled felt strongly about it unlike the people here.

Source:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-minimum-wage/

So, the general population agrees with me, and more professional economists agree with me then disagree. Why is it so extreme here? Why do so many believe so strongly about this? (notice NONE of the professional economists feel strongly about this)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2013, 05:20 PM
 
6,335 posts, read 2,694,578 times
Reputation: 2334
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
here is an even more stupid idea than yours it, lets just pay everyone the SAME amount of money each month regardless of what they do for a living, and where they live.
Sounds also about as stupid as those making 400X of what the average person makes when they are connected to the hip with Big Government, rigging the market place in their favor. Fascism at its finest.

Some of the highest paid people in this country are not getting paid what they do because they are the best and brightest nor smartest, but because they are either working with other people's money or having the government tailor to their every whim.

Where would the Big Wall Street Honcho's be without the government propping them up, or 50% of the population throwing money at them so they can get a pittance in return, while the Hedge Fund Managers and High Frequency Traders rake it in big time.

Where would the defense contractors be without Crony Government Contracts in order to rape and pillage another country to fatten the wallets of more investors and corporations that come afterwards?

It is certainly not to spread "Freedom and Democracy"

Heck, we don't even have that here, since we are Republic and the police state continues to encroach on the rights of citizens here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2013, 05:21 PM
 
18,931 posts, read 9,646,556 times
Reputation: 5302
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Sigh. so the way to "redudate" my data is to use HUD data, that states that in SOME areas....Why not just find a reputable study that backs up what you say? Oh because by cherry picking you can back up your argument. Got it.

"Raising minimum wage IS inflation"

So? Really? Its a insignificant source of inflation at the numbers we are discussing, and in fact many would argue that at 1.2% its easily arguable that we should do this. And its not a "raise minimum wage by 10%=10% inflation" either.
Source for inflation being low:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/16/bu...for-years.html

Calling me names, cherry picking arguments, insulting my intelligence....this is not having a debate, this is not reasonable discourse. But Im used to it here. Look at the poll, by a 2:1 margin currently the people here are against the idea of raising the minimum wage, whereas the general population is in favor by a 4:1 ratio.
Source:
Most Americans for Raising Minimum Wage

Claiming I am ignorant about economics.....The professionals would disagree with you. More of them think we should then we shouldn't (although by a small margin), and NONE of them that were polled felt strongly about it unlike the people here.

Source:
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-minimum-wage/

So, the general population agrees with me, and more professional economists agree with me then disagree. Why is it so extreme here? Why do so many believe so strongly about this? (notice NONE of the professional economists feel strongly about this)

The NY Times, one of the prominent liberal sources, is a great source for information!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2013, 05:24 PM
 
18,931 posts, read 9,646,556 times
Reputation: 5302
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Sounds also about as stupid as those making 400X of what the average person makes when they are connected to the hip with Big Government, rigging the market place in their favor. Fascism at its finest.

Some of the highest paid people in this country are not getting paid what they do because they are the best and brightest nor smartest, but because they are either working with other people's money or having the government tailor to their every whim.

Where would the Big Wall Street Honcho's be without the government propping them up, or 50% of the population throwing money at them so they can get a pittance in return, while the Hedge Fund Managers and High Frequency Traders rake it in big time.

Where would the defense contractors be without Crony Government Contracts in order to rape and pillage another country to fatten the wallets of more investors and corporations that come afterwards?

It is certainly not to spread "Freedom and Democracy"

Heck, we don't even have that here, since we are Republic and the police state continues to encroach on the rights of citizens here.
Explain to me how they rig the market to their favor. Give me one example please.

Are you referring to the healthcare.gov is being developed by some Canadian company who happens to know Michelle Obama?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2013, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,760 posts, read 16,841,238 times
Reputation: 26305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnenwende View Post
Minimum wage is already over $9 in WA. The sky hasn't fallen.
Are those who make that $9 an hour any better than they were when they made $8? I'm guessing not. Or are you trying to convince everyone that nothing happened to any prices. When I left Seattle in 2003, it was ranked as the #1 most expensive city to live in by Forbes magazine. They had a higher min wage than other places, even back then. Those on min wage had a hard time then, I'm betting they have a hard time now, even though it has gone up since I left.

I should go back for a visit and just check some prices since I'm sure no lib will be honest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2013, 05:36 PM
 
36,936 posts, read 16,117,008 times
Reputation: 8403
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Most of the Waltons are fine with it I imagine, as we subsidize their employees of companies paying minimum wage a total of 7 Billion dollars.....
Right!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2013, 05:42 PM
 
6,335 posts, read 2,694,578 times
Reputation: 2334
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
that assumes that prices dont go up to cover that higher minimum wage.

Let's see how this works. Minimum Wage goes up, and in order for the Big Dogs to keep their profit margins and bonuses, they charge more. They certainly can't offshore or outsource a lot of the jobs like they have many others, because most of the jobs that pay minimum wage are service sector related. They could create incentives for more illegal immigrants since educated H1B's would never come for Micky D Jobs, but the cost of welfare is also eating into their returns.

The $$ones$$ that own our government are in a conundrum.

And when the Bankers and Corp heads lobbied for Free Trade and other foreign economic agreements, the citizens of this country paid for it, while the big dogs reaped the benefits. How could we go about making the Big Dogs pay for it when they are the ones pushing these same policies?

Oh, that's right, they own the government.

Create policies (Commie China) to deflate the wealth of the average American in order for it to trickle up to the investor class = Good

Create Policies to reverse the trends of what they have been doing = BAD


Still, if they have to charge more, then there may be others that can sell it cheaper, wiping these particular big dogs out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2013, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,534,315 times
Reputation: 27566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Are those who make that $9 an hour any better than they were when they made $8? I'm guessing not. Or are you trying to convince everyone that nothing happened to any prices. When I left Seattle in 2003, it was ranked as the #1 most expensive city to live in by Forbes magazine. They had a higher min wage than other places, even back then. Those on min wage had a hard time then, I'm betting they have a hard time now, even though it has gone up since I left.

I should go back for a visit and just check some prices since I'm sure no lib will be honest.
COL of Seattle is 143%
Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site

Last edited by Yac; 09-07-2018 at 04:19 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top