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I don't really think this needs to be controlled by government, as far as the supersized sodas and whatnot. Instead of a supersized cup, I'll just drink three medium cups. Nothing is fixed. That's dumb.
However, I see no problem with requiring food producers to label their foods with exactly what is in them, and pertinent health info. You cannot proclaim that everyone should be responsible for themselves, needs to educate themselves, then rail against the very thing that would educate them. Many people have no idea that letting your two-year-old polish off a family size bag of Cheetos is not good. The two-year-old doesn't know any different, and can't make decisions.
I guess by "wear", you mean helmets? Or do you mean having their jeans at their knees? As far as helmets, having an accident with or without a helmet could place undue requirements on the people who would have to scrape you off the highway. It's not just a personal thing. And as for children wearing helmets, I'm a little torn on this. This goes back to not everyone being educated enough.
• what you can and can't do with your own property,
"Your own property" is an imaginary line drawn out in some documents. There is no physical barrier between your property and someone else's. And what you do on your property can severely depress someone else's value or cause health concerns. So, no, I see no problem with their being governmental property requirements.
Case in point: there was a guy in Memphis named Prince Mongo. As you might imagine, he was a strange creature. He made it a point to be as obnoxious as he could be to those around him. His front yard, in a nice, quiet neighborhood, became filled with headless dolls, all sorts of spinny things, toilets, coffins hanging from trees, etc. Fairly minor stuff, but this could cause his neighbor to not be able to sell his house.
Now, should you be able to move into an upscale neighborhood then run your garbage-sifting business out of your front yard? Sorry, no.
• what you can and can't say in public,
Unfortunately, many people need this restriction, but that's my opinion. If you want to stand on a corner with a sign that rails against gay marriage, whatever. But if you're our on a street corner in front of a toy store yelling an endless stream of profanities at all the families who walk by, I have no problem with you being stopped.
• where your kids go to school,
You can choose for your kids to go to another school. It's called private school. And for many public schools, they have lotteries for open spaces in schools outside your zone. But, having a free-for-all public school system would be a nightmare.
That being said, I do agree that we need to figure out a way to group high-achieveing students together so that they can push them harder.
• what you drive, How much mileage your car has to get.
You can drive whatever you want, as long as that vehicle meets emissions guidelines. Your emissions affect other people. So sorry, you should not be allowed to do whatever you want here. Go spend a day in downtown Manila and tell me that it doesn't matter. As for mileage, burning a lot of gas usually means more pollution. Again, this affects others.
• how high you can set your thermostat. When you can run your dishwasher. What kind of light bulbs you can buy.
Government supplies much of the power and water systems in this country, which I'm okay with. And power and clean water isn't boundless. There is a supply. And you can't just flick a switch and meet immediate demand with new supply. It takes years and millions or billions of dollars. So sometimes use needs to be restricted. During a drought, watering your 5-acre lawn might not be possible, as you are using an inordinate amount of water that is needed by the community as a whole. Sorry.
Because what you do is not necessarily in a vacuum, as much as you might want to believe it is. Some things, as mentioned above, are dumb. Some things, while you might think they mean nothing or that others should just look the other way, actually do affect other people. You don't get to choose in this situation, or you can choose but might have consequences. Sometimes it has nothing to do with telling you how to live your life by your own rules, but telling you how to work within the society as a whole.
Abortion is obviously a touchy subject. Some people don't want it at all, some people are fine with it the day before birth. I've even seen someone advocate for doing it after birth. I don't believe in late-term abortion, or even anything after 12 weeks. At some point, it needs to be decided if you are stopping a lump of cells, or if it's a human. But, that will never, ever be agreed upon by anyone.
Tell me any decision you make that impacts no one. You can't even say "poop" without hurting someone's feelings, these days, and then the anti-poop people, with media backing, get it banned for everyone. Why for years have mothers and fathers packed their kids' lunches without some school personnel having a hissy fit over it? I used to sing Christmas carols and Chanukah songs and Negro Sprituals in public school chorus. They're just songs. No adult whined about it that I know of but if they did, no school administrator caved. No kid got damaged. If I want to light up my place like lunar park, I pay more to do so. That's my decision. I run my air conditioner more than I run my heat. That's my decision. Up north, it's probably the opposite. I got news for you. Where I live (my town/county) there are no emissions tests and I don't have to get my car inspected, either. I drop everything (hyperbole, but I do drop things a lot). I'm not buying the curly light bulbs. Ever. I live in an apartment complex. Wouldn't everyone be just cheerful if we had to run our dishwashers at 2:00A? How would you like to work with those people the next day? You all want to do those things in, for example, California, fine by me. Californians vote for the people who run their state. If people don't like it they move out. If others like it they move in. But on Capitol Hill, there are only 3 people I can influence with my vote. I don't want the batsh*t crazies from California, Vermont, Oregon and New York, for example, taking away my personal freedoms or decisions that should be made locally by people we actually vote for to make them.
The annual increase in US Healthcare casts due to obesity is $190 billion. This comes from $5,530 more per year in medical costs for a person with a BMI above 40. By comparison, smokers' medical costs were only $1,274 a year higher than nonsmokers', who also generally die earlier. The bulk of these costs are assumed by all of us, even those who are not fat, in the form of higher insurance premiums, higher unit costs due to increases demand on the system, and medicare and medicaid costs assumed by the taxpayer because of necessary cost shifting.
Additionally:
We expend as a nation $5 billion annually for additional jet fuel needed to fly heavier Americans, compared to fuel needed at 1960 weights. $4 billion annually for additional gasoline as cars carry heavier passengers. Businesses absorb $1,026 per year for absenteeism for each very obese male worker (BMI > 40) and $1,262: Annual cost of absenteeism per very obese female worker. $277: annual cost of absenteeism per mildly obese (BMI 25 to 29.9) male worker and $407: annual cost of absenteeism per mildly obese female worker.
There are other costs... but that should pretty much answer your question.
Actually, no. That's pretty much just a secondary byproduct. All of human history declares that because humans are social animals the primary thing that society secures is existence. That is why society exists; as a community we can transform our environment and conquer the planet, but as individuals we are food for leopards and hyenas. Across all of our sojourn on the planet the core human unit has always been humanity and not the individual human.
The United States was certainly unique in recognizing a balance between individual liberty and societal prerogatives. But even today, the solipsistic and self centered American worship of the individual over the community is a global anomaly... approached only by the Australians. Pretty much the rest of the planet thinks we're insane on that score. And the preamble to our own Constitution expresses a balance that is completely missing from the egocentric blather of the contemporary American Libertarian. It speaks of "a more perfect Union," the "common Defence" and "general welfare." The Constitution makes no effort to suborn society to the individual. It instead attempts to create a better society.
Perhaps if you are an oyster. Not if you are a human being.
Your fabulous generosity to your fellow man is noted.
Libs actually believe the above, thus thier irrational behavior. This is what we call a Type 1 logic error, in which decisions are made with fallacious data.
Libs hold, as their core beliefs, that the rights of the "collective" trump those of the individual, regardless of the law.
Conservatives feel as though the rights of the "collective" are conferred only by the aggregate of individual rights, and that the rights of the individual is the basis of our society and law.
I find it interesting that the above lib uses the concept of civilization and communal society as a rationalization to impose the will of the government (the collective) upon individuals. That, of course, is confusing ECONOMICS and SOCIAL CONSTRUCTS OF SOCIETY with POLITICAL RIGHTS. They are not the same thing at all, yet it amusing that a lib would believe otherwise. If this was not so, then in EVERY SITUATION in which people joined in a community, socialism/communism would be the default form of government and law.
Seriously? It's as if nobody in P&OC has ever learned how to frame a question for debate properly. What we have in this thread is a fallacy called begging the question, and it's not even subtle! Don't engage people. Just. Don't. Engage.
Are you aware people should be able to eat what they want?
Are you aware, not all of us want to subsidize those with cardiovascular disease which contribute to rising healthcare costs? Are you aware that more people than not would rather the unnecessary poisons be eliminated from food,
Tell me any decision you make that impacts no one. You can't even say "poop" without hurting someone's feelings, these days, and then the anti-poop people, with media backing, get it banned for everyone. Why for years have mothers and fathers packed their kids' lunches without some school personnel having a hissy fit over it? I used to sing Christmas carols and Chanukah songs and Negro Sprituals in public school chorus. They're just songs. No adult whined about it that I know of but if they did, no school administrator caved. No kid got damaged.
No idea what you're trying to say in the stuff above. Pretty sure I didn't say any thing that goes against any of that.
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If I want to light up my place like lunar park, I pay more to do so. That's my decision. I run my air conditioner more than I run my heat. That's my decision. Up north, it's probably the opposite.
But that's just the thing. There's a finite amount of electricity and water. Your decision (and others like you) to use an inordinate amount could cause blackouts or, in the case of water, just a depletion of supply. Your "I get to make that decision", in this case, actually does affect others, and possibly on a grand scale.
If, during a drought, some guy decides to just turn his sprinklers on and leave them on all the time, and the local water supply runs out, you see that as "it's his right"?
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I got news for you. Where I live (my town/county) there are no emissions tests and I don't have to get my car inspected, either.
Good for you? I mean, do you want a medal or something?
In small towns, this is not as big of a deal as it is in cities of millions. Go to a large city/country which has no emissions/pollution requirements of any kind. Do you really want to live in a place like this:
just because it means "freedom!!"?
Quote:
I drop everything (hyperbole, but I do drop things a lot). I'm not buying the curly light bulbs. Ever.
And you don't have to. That has never been the only option after the regulations on incandescent. Halogen replacements are allowed and put out identical light to the previous incandescents.
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I live in an apartment complex. Wouldn't everyone be just cheerful if we had to run our dishwashers at 2:00A? How would you like to work with those people the next day?
I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Is your dishwasher powered by jet engines? Do they shake the entire building? Why would you have to run your dishwasher at 2am? Off-peak? Bizarre point.
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You all want to do those things in, for example, California, fine by me. Californians vote for the people who run their state. If people don't like it they move out. If others like it they move in. But on Capitol Hill, there are only 3 people I can influence with my vote. I don't want the batsh*t crazies from California, Vermont, Oregon and New York, for example, taking away my personal freedoms or decisions that should be made locally by people we actually vote for to make them.
Yet again, your town does not have a physical barrier around it. Your town can decide that it will allow you to burn tires in your yard, but if the wind blows that smoke into the neighboring town which doesn't want that, now what? Your town may decide that the river that runs through it can be bled dry to supply water to itself. What about towns downstream?
Not everything can be total freedom. Not as long as you live around other people.
No, it was founded on the notion that the individual would NOT be compromised by force.
Force is bringing in the armed forces and having martial law imposed, or having a military coup, it's not doing something to help break gridlock or make people have access to healthcare, or feeding children, or allowing women access to contraception or abortion.
No idea what you're trying to say in the stuff above. Pretty sure I didn't say any thing that goes against any of that.
But that's just the thing. There's a finite amount of electricity and water. Your decision (and others like you) to use an inordinate amount could cause blackouts or, in the case of water, just a depletion of supply. Your "I get to make that decision", in this case, actually does affect others, and possibly on a grand scale.
If, during a drought, some guy decides to just turn his sprinklers on and leave them on all the time, and the local water supply runs out, you see that as "it's his right"?
Good for you? I mean, do you want a medal or something?
In small towns, this is not as big of a deal as it is in cities of millions. Go to a large city/country which has no emissions/pollution requirements of any kind. Do you really want to live in a place like this:
just because it means "freedom!!"?
And you don't have to. That has never been the only option after the regulations on incandescent. Halogen replacements are allowed and put out identical light to the previous incandescents.
I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Is your dishwasher powered by jet engines? Do they shake the entire building? Why would you have to run your dishwasher at 2am? Off-peak? Bizarre point.
Yet again, your town does not have a physical barrier around it. Your town can decide that it will allow you to burn tires in your yard, but if the wind blows that smoke into the neighboring town which doesn't want that, now what? Your town may decide that the river that runs through it can be bled dry to supply water to itself. What about towns downstream?
Not everything can be total freedom. Not as long as you live around other people.
I always wonder the age of some posters that feel everything on the planet is there's to do what they wish in the name of freedom. Odd
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