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the idea of people argueing over politics or politicians is pointless.
are you really trying to convince the other side of your pov? or do people just like to argue for the sake of argueing.
the thousands of threads here in this forum reflect real life... someone gives thier pov and then the rest is namecalling
people should just accept that you cant change grown folks minds and people think how they think
I disagree. Many people hold some of their positions out of pure ignorance, and may have only heard one side of an issue, and are lacking in any knowledge or facts.
People are not idiots, if you present your arguments in a rational, informed and principled manner, people will respond. Many times you can either educate them enough so they will change their position on an issue, or get them to a point where they are sufficiently informed to seek out the facts and arrive at their own informed opinion.
If you meet someone who steadfastly holds an uniformed position on an issue, you will not get anywhere by simply convincing them to adopt your position, if they are still ignorant and uninformed. To use an old proverb, you have to teach them how to fish.
All sorts of ways a person can arrive at a losing argument in a debate, and sure "brainwashing" is certainly one of them, but if you are the person leveling the ad hominem charge of brainwashed onto your debate opponent, then your argument cannot stand on its own logical fact basis or you are debating someone who simply will not admit or recognize that their argument has been defeated. In either case, the appearance of the ad hominem means real debate is over, and toddlers are arguing over who gets the biggest toy.
When I discuss politics with anyone I do not resort to personal attacks nor do I call them brainwashed if they don't agree with me. However, it is so obvious from the example that I provided by remarks like "I have always heard, etc." that they are brainwashed and can't think for themselves.
Say nothing, or just say something like "oh great response!"
this means you won that debate.
They can't think of a counter argument so they have to shout out nonsense like that.
I disagree. Many people hold some of their positions out of pure ignorance, and may have only heard one side of an issue, and are lacking in any knowledge or facts.
People are not idiots, if you present your arguments in a rational, informed and principled manner, people will respond. Many times you can either educate them enough so they will change their position on an issue, or get them to a point where they are sufficiently informed to seek out the facts and arrive at their own informed opinion.
If you meet someone who steadfastly holds an uniformed position on an issue, you will not get anywhere by simply convincing them to adopt your position, if they are still ignorant and uninformed. To use an old proverb, you have to teach them how to fish.
I have tried that but most of the time it doesn't work. I have presented hard core facts to people who are merely misinformed aka "I have always heard" but they still don't budge from their positions anyway. it seems that once something is instilled in them aka brainwashing they cannot accept or understand the truth. There are exceptions of course by those who remain open minded and can think for themselves but they are few and far between. At least that has been my experience. I remain open minded myself but the opposing view never presents any facts to back up their positions to sway me. I have always researched and sought out the truth for myself. Don't ever believe just what you hear or what someone just tells you.
During the Thanksgiving Holiday, I had a house full for a week (12 people) - almost all of them were very Liberal (as opposed to Leftists) and were escapees from California. By just listening, I discovered that all but one had discovered that 'tax and spend' was not a very good idea, that regulations were killing the business of their grown children, that ObamaCare was a nightmare and for some reason they had become extremely anti-immigration policy.
I enjoyed listening, but didn't even bother to ask why the "change" ….. I think getting out of the California Faculty rooms and catching up with LIFE brought a sense of reality to their lives.
Sometimes people live in a bubble, where everyone just accepts certain viewpoints, and no one even discusses the issues because there is no other view, and they have never heard any alternate or opposing views.
When politics comes up I immediately say "sorry I don't talk politics" I don't believe I am included in the inner workings of any party so why pretend I am one of them. They are politicians and I am just a retired person.
I might root for a professional sports team but I know I am not a member of that team anymore than I am an insider member of any political party that I might throw a vote at.
IMO it's politicians vs the general public.They make the laws that the rest of us have to abide by.
I have tried that but most of the time it doesn't work. I have presented hard core facts to people who are merely misinformed aka "I have always heard" but they still don't budge from their positions anyway. it seems that once something is instilled in them aka brainwashing they cannot accept or understand the truth. There are exceptions of course by those who remain open minded and can think for themselves but they are few and far between. At least that has been my experience. I remain open minded myself but the opposing view never presents any facts to back up their positions to sway me. I have always researched and sought out the truth for myself. Don't ever believe just what you hear or what someone just tells you.
I've met those people, it's extremely aggravating to meet an ignorant person who professes to hold principled views. These are the "just because" people, who are actually out there voting in politicians, just because they have a (R) or (D) after their name.
These people hold their stubborn viewpoints, even though they have no facts to back it up. They are either too lazy to go thru the trouble of making themselves informed, or they have no clue where to go to find the truth, because there is so much propaganda and lies out there.
When politics comes up I immediately say "sorry I don't talk politics" I don't believe I am included in the inner workings of any party so why pretend I am one of them. They are politicians and I am just a retired person.
I might root for a professional sports team but I know I am not a member of that team anymore than I am an insider member of any political party that I might throw a vote at.
IMO it's politicians vs the general public.They make the laws that the rest of us have to abide by.
I've found you can discuss politics if you limit it to the very basic principles, because most all of us hold the same values. You can also pick the least controversial of topics to discuss, or limit the discussion to a specific piece of a larger issue.
You just have to keep your radar up to detect the mindless, politically partisan drones, who are limited to repeating campaign slogans, newspaper headlines and bumper stickers. Once you detect these people, you politely excuse yourself and do an about face.
Did you not read the part where I said... IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE A REPUBLIC OR DEMOCRAT?
I'm a Democrat, so when I go to Alaska, of course I get drawn into these big debates, so it's no shock that the people who accuse me of being brainwashed are conservatives.
If one of them went to San Francisco, I'm sure they would get called brainwashed by a liberal.
My entire point is no matter what party you affiliate yourself with.... you should learn the opposing arguments in all issues. If a liberal calls you brainwashed or whatever and you can say, okay, tell me if I'm right, you believe X because of _________ and Y because of ______________ and Z because of __________. If you make the same argument that liberal would have made, that liberal will be speechless because he/she will think... oh he really does understand why liberals believe in X, Y and Z.
Most of the time, people will say... oh so you're a liberal, you just want to tax the rich and give lazy poor people all their money! Or, oh so you're a conservative, you just want to prevent minorities from moving up in the world. That doesn't get you anywhere because the other person will think, NO I DON'T WANT TO JUST FORCE RICH PEOPLE TO GIVE THEIR MONEY TO THE POOR OR NO I DON'T WANT TO KEEP MINORITIES DOWN... because you know they have no clue what you are thinking, you no longer care about listening to them.
When we have family get togethers we just enjoy each others company. Our family knows it is up to us to take care of ourselves and no politician is looking out for us. The only thing they do is take our money to line their own pockets, buy votes and pay off friends. Obama is the worst by far.
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