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Old 12-31-2013, 06:34 AM
 
2,234 posts, read 1,759,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Sterling View Post
Here's a question that's been brought up before but never gets a proper answer.

Putting aside whether various attacks by blacks or non-blacks on people of other races are hate crimes, why is it that interracial violent crimes committed by non-blacks on blacks are much more likely to be reported nationally than interracial violent crimes committed by blacks on non-blacks?
Maybe I'm missing something. Was the knockout game not nationally know and receiving lots of attention long before this recent case involving a white guy? Wasn't that national attention to Blacks knocking out Whites the spark that caused this white knockout suspect to go after a Black guy? I don't know... Maybe it's me.

To answer your question, it's because Blacks make a bigger deal out of it than Whites do. You don't see Whites marking and kicking up as much dust about these type of things usually. If a high number of White were as vocal or outraged about something/anything, then it would become news worthy enough to report. You can take this story for example. IMHO, it has blown up not because a white man assaulted a black man, but because whites are outraged that the white man was charged with a hate crime. It's pasted all over Republican sites, FaceBook pages belonging to white people, personal blogs, and Right/White leaning news websites.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:39 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,161 posts, read 15,638,146 times
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I find the whole "hate crime" institution to be ludicrous. Because it is. Adding an extra punishment onto a crime based on the supposed motive? In tbe case in question here, that motive being human emotion? Wby thenare not "crimes of passion" not prosecuted more harshly? Surely then "anger crimes", "love crimes", and crimes motivated by fear are as equally heinous, yes? All are, debatedly, undesirable emotions, save love, though that emotion has motivated many a murder and assault.

I find the idea that human emotion can be used as a prosecuting tool, and that it can be legislated, to be frightening. If a man, or woman, kills their spouse, ex lover, what have you, out of jealous rage, they are not prosecuted based on tbat motive, nor is that jealous rage considered as a mitigating factor in sentencing. Yet, "hate"is somehow different in tbat regard? Yep, we, as a society, are going to modify human emotion via the justice system. How...warm and fuzzy...tbat makes me feel. (Insert appropriate contempt and disdain in my tone here)

The idea that human emotion can be modified, or a specific one done away with, by making it illegal, or adding harsher punishment to a sentence for a crime because that emotion was a factor, is just plain ol' ate up with STUPID! Oh, I guess it makes some folks feel all giddy with love for their fellow human beings, or wtfe, but it's still a rankly idiotic premise. That's my take on it anyway.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:01 AM
 
17,291 posts, read 29,415,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
I find the whole "hate crime" institution to be ludicrous. Because it is. Adding an extra punishment onto a crime based on the supposed motive? In tbe case in question here, that motive being human emotion? Wby thenare not "crimes of passion" not prosecuted more harshly? Surely then "anger crimes", "love crimes", and crimes motivated by fear are as equally heinous, yes? All are, debatedly, undesirable emotions, save love, though that emotion has motivated many a murder and assault.

Um, you realize that "supposed motive" is at the heart of criminal prosecution and sentencing, right?

Beyond, "did he do it," the next question is "why." It's been this way for hundreds of years in our legal system. Because it DOES matter.

If I accidentally hit your spouse with my car and they die, it's a huge difference compared to if I target her out and kill her. To the victim, there's no difference, but the justice served is dependent on motivation, mitigating and aggravating circumstances.

Otherwise even negligent deaths would be answered with the death penalty.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:36 AM
 
11,186 posts, read 6,511,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Um, you realize that "supposed motive" is at the heart of criminal prosecution and sentencing, right?

Beyond, "did he do it," the next question is "why." It's been this way for hundreds of years in our legal system. Because it DOES matter.

If I accidentally hit your spouse with my car and they die, it's a huge difference compared to if I target her out and kill her. To the victim, there's no difference, but the justice served is dependent on motivation, mitigating and aggravating circumstances.

Otherwise even negligent deaths would be answered with the death penalty.
Motive' is technically irrelevant in the legal system. It commonly refers to 'why.' Did one spouse kill the other due to jealousy, money, anger, etc.. You're expanding the word 'motive' to cover was it negligence, accident, intentional, etc. OTOH, motivation is at the heart of convictions for hate crimes.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:03 AM
 
11,186 posts, read 6,511,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simetime View Post
I find it interesting that you use zimmerman as an example of someone being persued by th ejustice system by is'nt that what they did with the O.J case?
The federal DOJ set up an email tipline for everyone to help them build a federal criminal case against OJ ? I don't remember that.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:58 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
18,161 posts, read 15,638,146 times
Reputation: 17152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Um, you realize that "supposed motive" is at the heart of criminal prosecution and sentencing, right?

Beyond, "did he do it," the next question is "why." It's been this way for hundreds of years in our legal system. Because it DOES matter.

If I accidentally hit your spouse with my car and they die, it's a huge difference compared to if I target her out and kill her. To the victim, there's no difference, but the justice served is dependent on motivation, mitigating and aggravating circumstances.

Otherwise even negligent deaths would be answered with the death penalty.
Alright. Then please answer my questions in regard to why "hate" is a MORE mitigating factor than jealousy, anger, fear etc. Yes, motive goes to proof as to WHY an individual committed a crime. As a prosecutorial tool. However,to write a special law, singling out hate as a more heinous motive than all others, is STILL idiotic. Requiring harsher sentencing for that single emotional involvement with a specific crime. Such a factor should be on a case by case at the discretion of the court.

It is ludicrous to mandate harsher sentencing for hate as motive than,say, jealousy. To satisfy sensibilities, and make over emotional people feel cuddly, hatred gets deemed the "special" negative emotion? Yes, it is an ugly thing, but we ALL have it in us. I can still see no sense or practicality in hate crime laws.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:10 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,326,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzarama View Post
The federal DOJ set up an email tipline for everyone to help them build a federal criminal case against OJ ? I don't remember that.
But I just that you do remember the outrage in media by certain groups wanting O.J's head on a stick don't you? Do you think that it would have gotten the same amount of attention if he had killed a black woman and another blackman?
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:13 PM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,233,828 times
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Lets see if a black knockout suspect gets charged with a hate crime if he attacks someone other than black people.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:15 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,326,686 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Alright. Then please answer my questions in regard to why "hate" is a MORE mitigating factor than jealousy, anger, fear etc. Yes, motive goes to proof as to WHY an individual committed a crime. As a prosecutorial tool. However,to write a special law, singling out hate as a more heinous motive than all others, is STILL idiotic. Requiring harsher sentencing for that single emotional involvement with a specific crime. Such a factor should be on a case by case at the discretion of the court.

It is ludicrous to mandate harsher sentencing for hate as motive than,say, jealousy. To satisfy sensibilities, and make over emotional people feel cuddly, hatred gets deemed the "special" negative emotion? Yes, it is an ugly thing, but we ALL have it in us. I can still see no sense or practicality in hate crime laws.
Out of all of the emotions that would account for killing someone either purposely or accidentally, hate, and greed (sometimes jealously as well) are ones that usually garner the most sever punishment and lead to premediated murder (murder 1) and thus a harsher sentence. Crimes of passion are usually spontaneous and do not take much planning or thinking the whole thing out, thus usually garner less time (murder 2/3). These are just my thoughts on the matter.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:17 PM
 
Location: The Land of Reason
13,221 posts, read 12,326,686 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Sterling View Post
Here's a question that's been brought up before but never gets a proper answer.

Putting aside whether various attacks by blacks or non-blacks on people of other races are hate crimes, why is it that interracial violent crimes committed by non-blacks on blacks are much more likely to be reported nationally than interracial violent crimes committed by blacks on non-blacks?

There's practically daily violent assaults and murders committed by blacks against non-blacks that never make national news unless its particularly henious, yet most if not all violent incidents by non-blacks against blacks you will probably hear about it. Please tell me why there is such an inequity in reporting?

As had been said numerous times before, if the numbers were reversed and it were non-blacks who were committing daily interracial crime against blacks, you know that blacks would never stand for that and there would be national outcry for change. Yet because THEY are the majority perpetrator of interracial crime, usually very little if any is said by the black community in response and even less is done by them to fix this problem.

So 'hate crime' or no 'hate crime', interracial crime and murder only seems to take on significance when blacks are the victims, while its nothing more than just another violent attack or murder that's not worthy of reporting outside the local news when non-blacks are the victims and blacks are the perpetrators.

One simple answer, American history you should read it sometimes.
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