Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Per our earlier conversation. Without insurance there is no such thing as $1000 pills.
Yes, there is.
A "pill" will cost as much as it costs, and some pills will cost $0.03 and others will cost $10,000.
You are really weak on the accounting, finance and economics of Research & Development.
Do you donate free laboratory space to companies to do R&D?
Do you provide free electricity? What about lab equipment and lab supplies?
All of the personnel, those with Associate or Bachelor degrees, Master's, and PhD, do you let them sleep in your lab? They don't deserve to be paid do they? No, of course not.....they'll work for free, because you asked them to.
Between 1997 and 2011 Pfizer spent $108,178,000,000
That's $108 Billion.
They managed to get 14 drugs approved during the same period. That works out to $7,727,000,000 or $7.7 Billion per drug.
Let me guess...you though they could sell the pills for $0.01 a piece, and just sell 772 Billion of them over 75 years to get their money back, right?
Like I said, you're weak on your accounting, finance and economics. That $7.7 Billion really isn't $7.7 Billion....it's more than that, because you must factor in Future Costs.
Generally speaking, that money must be recouped within 5-7 years, in order to avoid financial losses.
My sister has a rare disorder called diabetes insipidus. The medication cost her $800 per month....for the rest of her life....to avoid going into a coma and dying. A Swedish company manufactures the drug, and it really does cost that much.
Few people have the disease, so it's not like there are Millions of people buying it at Walgreen's everyday. Fortunately, the R&D costs were quite low in comparison to any other number of drugs. I told her to write a letter to the company, be truthful and explain her financial situation for her and my two nephews, and she did. A representative came out to see her, they talked it over, and the company decided to give her a discount on the purchase price.
Anyway, insurance has no bearing on the cost of prescription drugs. If it was up to the "insurance" companies, they wouldn't even cover prescription drugs, but thanks to the lobbying efforts of the American Hospital Association, the "insurance" companies have no choice and must include prescription drugs.
How much money has been spent on cancer research?
If and when a "cure" is ever discovered, how much do you think it will cost?
$0.99 for a 30-day supply of pills payable in three easy installments of $0.33 on your credit card, is that what you thought?
I would not be surprised at all to see the pills costing $10,000 to $25,000 each (or more).
When is anyone going to get it. The USA is totally incapable of fixing anything at all in their country. Things are just going from bad to worse and will continue to decline until there is some meaningful reform. The good old days are gone for good in the USA and they are not coming back. The country is still operating like it did from the 50s onwards and the world is a very different place. What made the USA great in the past just is not going to work any more and the sooner the politicians realize it the sooner they will be able to make the changes needed in this new millennium. Healthcare is just a single example of the inability of the country to effect positive change. The entire rest of the western democracies figured this out decades ago and actually did things to address it.
The bottom line is that the USA is a "right wing" state. By definition the right is reactionary which means going backward and not forward. It's regressive which means any of the hard earned benefits the middle class has fought for and won will be taken away. The state exists for the benefit of the wealthy few and as we have seen the healthcare system is just fine for them, "thank you very much". It's truly pathetic seeing a once great "Beacon of freedom" descend into a quasi Fascist state where the corporations are more important and have more rights than the citizens. I really can't see this changing any time soon and who knows how far down the country will have to go before "the people" have had enough of getting screwed over and over.
The right's view on healthcare, is based on antiquity. Anyhow, it will only be a matter of time before single payer is implemented. IF we don't do any true reform in the US in regards to medical costs, it will financially destroy this nation. The reason why you guys have a lower cost is because your govt. uses its power to negotiate lower prices for everything. And a free market approach will never work out, as medical care does not fall into the norm of supply and demand. You cant negotiate or shop around for ambulance prices when your having a heart attack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
I never made such an admission.
That was in fact you and weltschmerz who made that claim after you ran out of space deflecting and dodging....like here....where dodged...
...and you dodged this...
...as a reminder that was your chance to show everyone that you understand how insurance works....you failed...
....here's weltschmerz on failed deflection....
And just for the record, you made that claim here....
...as did this Canadian....
...and of course, this one....
If you do not "wish" for that to happen, then perhaps you should increase the taxes you pay to ensure that your ER rooms are adequately staffed to prevent such deaths.
But, then, of course if you did that, you would be admitting that Canada is not currently paying the true cost of healthcare, and that healthcare in Canada is not cheaper.
And if the increased taxes cause economic problems in Canada?
I'll guess you just turn more socialist, right?
Would you like a reminder?
After Three Wolves In Snow cornered you on an issue, this was your response....
It would appear you like snarky and evil.
But....you admit there are waiting lines.....at least we're making progress.....it won't be too much longer before you step into the World of Reality.
I never wished it on anyone...I simply mentioned it as a possible future fate.
Dodging and defecting......if your healthcare system is properly funded and you are paying the true cost of healthcare, then why are people dying in your waiting rooms?
Either you have the intelligence to answer the question, or not.
And, if your claims that Americans are dying in ER rooms, then expanding the healthcare system to include more people and tax the already limited resources will do what?
Cause more people to die. Why would you "wish" that on people?
In the future, see if you can come up with something more creative than working for insurance companies.
Better yet, stop dodging and deflecting...
Mircea
No system is perfect. But it definitely beats this
As well, a few posts ago you said i misunderstood EMTALA. You do realized that anyone who walks into a hospital regardless of ability to pay, get treated and stabilized, regardless of its a life threatening emergency or not. If you get to know people who actually work in the ER and hospitals, you will realize that people will come in to the ER because they have no where else to go and they cant afford to see a doctor. So they get treated. They are not gona pay those costs. Instead their costs get passed on to the tax payers and insurance paying individuals.
The right's view on healthcare, is based on antiquity. Anyhow, it will only be a matter of time before single payer is implemented. IF we don't do any true reform in the US in regards to medical costs, it will financially destroy this nation. The reason why you guys have a lower cost is because your govt. uses its power to negotiate lower prices for everything. And a free market approach will never work out, as medical care does not fall into the norm of supply and demand. You cant negotiate or shop around for ambulance prices when your having a heart attack
You can't negotiates or shop around for ambulance prices when you are have a heart attack, but your insurance company sure as heck can ahead of time.
Further, the cost difference in a lot of things between America and everyone else is a free-riding problem where stuff like drugs costs a lot to develop but not much to manufacture marginal additional quantities. So companies innovate for the U.S. market and then sell at discounted rates to foreign governmental monopolies because hey the U.S. consumers have already paid for the up-front costs everything else is gravy. If the U.S. tried to do the same prices would go way down here and way up everywhere else because someone has to pay the development costs -- but you can have the same effect of ending the free-riding problem by just legalizing drug re-importation and stripping the patents from drug makers who sell for much more in America than in other rich countries; no need to socialize medicine to get it done.
You can't negotiates or shop around for ambulance prices when you are have a heart attack, but your insurance company sure as heck can ahead of time.
Further, the cost difference in a lot of things between America and everyone else is a free-riding problem where stuff like drugs costs a lot to develop but not much to manufacture marginal additional quantities. So companies innovate for the U.S. market and then sell at discounted rates to foreign governmental monopolies because hey the U.S. consumers have already paid for the up-front costs everything else is gravy. If the U.S. tried to do the same prices would go way down here and way up everywhere else because someone has to pay the development costs -- but you can have the same effect of ending the free-riding problem by just legalizing drug re-importation and stripping the patents from drug makers who sell for much more in America than in other rich countries; no need to socialize medicine to get it done.
You do realize some communities are only served by one ambulance service?
A "pill" will cost as much as it costs, and some pills will cost $0.03 and others will cost $10,000.
You are really weak on the accounting, finance and economics of Research & Development.
Do you donate free laboratory space to companies to do R&D?
Do you provide free electricity? What about lab equipment and lab supplies?
All of the personnel, those with Associate or Bachelor degrees, Master's, and PhD, do you let them sleep in your lab? They don't deserve to be paid do they? No, of course not.....they'll work for free, because you asked them to.
There must be a market for your product. The market for $1000 pills is the insurance companies.
Between 1997 and 2011 Pfizer spent $108,178,000,000
That's $108 Billion.
They managed to get 14 drugs approved during the same period. That works out to $7,727,000,000 or $7.7 Billion per drug.
Let me guess...you though they could sell the pills for $0.01 a piece, and just sell 772 Billion of them over 75 years to get their money back, right?
Like I said, you're weak on your accounting, finance and economics. That $7.7 Billion really isn't $7.7 Billion....it's more than that, because you must factor in Future Costs.
Generally speaking, that money must be recouped within 5-7 years, in order to avoid financial losses.
My sister has a rare disorder called diabetes insipidus. The medication cost her $800 per month....for the rest of her life....to avoid going into a coma and dying. A Swedish company manufactures the drug, and it really does cost that much.
Few people have the disease, so it's not like there are Millions of people buying it at Walgreen's everyday. Fortunately, the R&D costs were quite low in comparison to any other number of drugs. I told her to write a letter to the company, be truthful and explain her financial situation for her and my two nephews, and she did. A representative came out to see her, they talked it over, and the company decided to give her a discount on the purchase price.
Anyway, insurance has no bearing on the cost of prescription drugs. If it was up to the "insurance" companies, they wouldn't even cover prescription drugs, but thanks to the lobbying efforts of the American Hospital Association, the "insurance" companies have no choice and must include prescription drugs.
How much money has been spent on cancer research?
If and when a "cure" is ever discovered, how much do you think it will cost?
$0.99 for a 30-day supply of pills payable in three easy installments of $0.33 on your credit card, is that what you thought?
I would not be surprised at all to see the pills costing $10,000 to $25,000 each (or more).
Cost-accounting....
Mircea
All disregarding that there are very few who can afford to pony up $100,000 for a cycle of pills and corresponding treatment. If there is no one to buy them or very few to buy them you either become a fry cook or you come up with pills the overwhelming majority could actually purchase from you.
There must be a market for your product and the market for $1000 pills is the insurance companies.
You do realize some communities are only served by one ambulance service?
If you're talking about rural areas, there is generally a single dominant insurer which can keep prices in check.
If you're talking urban areas, I'd be be very surprised (and interested in learning more), but admit you'd then need the government to step in to keep a reasonable lid on prices.
I do not know if the alleged bias was ever stated. However, stating someone has a particular bias without evidence of such simply amounts to unfounded accusations.
You are are a nurse are you not?
Every one has a bias, usually multiples. It does have relevance, but Mirc has presented evidence and pertinent information as to why he is making the statements he is making. Why not discuss or address that?
If you're talking about rural areas, there is generally a single dominant insurer which can keep prices in check.
If you're talking urban areas, I'd be be very surprised (and interested in learning more), but admit you'd then need the government to step in to keep a reasonable lid on prices.
I suppose reasonable is a highly subjective term. Some quite ridiculous ambulance bills I have seen or heard of came from "govt" agencies, notably EMS, that by law could not be "forgiven" despite no means to pay or even request for service by the one being serviced.
That was in fact you and weltschmerz who made that claim after you ran out of space deflecting and dodging....like here....where dodged...
...and you dodged this...
...as a reminder that was your chance to show everyone that you understand how insurance works....you failed...
....here's weltschmerz on failed deflection....
And just for the record, you made that claim here....
...as did this Canadian....
...and of course, this one....
If you do not "wish" for that to happen, then perhaps you should increase the taxes you pay to ensure that your ER rooms are adequately staffed to prevent such deaths.
But, then, of course if you did that, you would be admitting that Canada is not currently paying the true cost of healthcare, and that healthcare in Canada is not cheaper.
And if the increased taxes cause economic problems in Canada?
I'll guess you just turn more socialist, right?
Would you like a reminder?
After Three Wolves In Snow cornered you on an issue, this was your response....
It would appear you like snarky and evil.
But....you admit there are waiting lines.....at least we're making progress.....it won't be too much longer before you step into the World of Reality.
I never wished it on anyone...I simply mentioned it as a possible future fate.
Dodging and defecting......if your healthcare system is properly funded and you are paying the true cost of healthcare, then why are people dying in your waiting rooms?
Either you have the intelligence to answer the question, or not.
And, if your claims that Americans are dying in ER rooms, then expanding the healthcare system to include more people and tax the already limited resources will do what?
Cause more people to die. Why would you "wish" that on people?
In the future, see if you can come up with something more creative than working for insurance companies.
Better yet, stop dodging and deflecting...
Mircea
As usual you didn't respond to any of the rebuttal links providing proof your situation is far worse than Canada's with more people dying in your er's but hey, we're used to your deflection by accusations of deflection. You simply refer to those links as MY claims while your links are assumed to be immutable.
Per capita expenditures for healthcare in each of our countries are well known and recorded by both countries. Those figures show you're paying more and getting less. Links have proven your patients are dying while waiting extended periods of time in an ER unit for treatment. Links proved they're dying at home after being denied treatment. Links prove they're dying in Hospital parking lots after being misdiagnosed. Links proved they're being inaccurately treated by the thousands and dying because of it. Links proved you have a far worse problem on a per-capita basis than Canada regarding failures in your sytem but yet you talk about underfunding in Canada and even brought up the overworked "socialist" mem to hopefully broaden your receptive audience.
I sense Americans are now getting too smart for you Mircea. You're flailing around trying to regain traction with personal bullcrap. Your symptoms are readily apparent and one can only hope you'll get timely and effective treatment rather than the alternative outcome suffered by so many of your fellows.
Who would now expect you to admit you're a paid shill for insurance companies again since the advent of the ACA. Parasites love the dark.
We've been over and over this multiple times posting pertinent info links you simply ignore after posting your usual bumph. Why would we bother to engage you in a repeat performance of YOUR dodging and deflecting?
Sooner rather than later people are simply going to skip over your inane, rambling and very repetitive offerings.
He said he'd be happy to see another poster die! I believe that is against the TOS.
You do understand what this means (addressed to weltschmerz):
Quote:
I must say...I would not be the least bit distraught by your passing.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
