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Old 01-28-2014, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Houston
5,998 posts, read 3,736,669 times
Reputation: 4163

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin_Muzik_NJ View Post
But we know where the EXACT center of all that is...
Yes, relative to our visual range. The center will always be at the point of perception.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:08 AM
 
1,634 posts, read 1,210,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahzzie View Post
And you know this how exactly?
Because..

1 - there is no direct evidence

and

2 - the definition of a black hole is in direct contradiction with Newtonian physics and GR. (Look at the video posted by Shiloh1)

And...that physicists do not seem to care much about their explanation outside of the math.

Those are the main ones.

Do you have any reason to believe they DO?
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:10 AM
 
1,634 posts, read 1,210,298 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahzzie View Post
Yes, relative to our visual range. The center will always be at the point of perception.
Do you have proof that there is no edge of space? If you do, then I agree with you.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,462,250 times
Reputation: 6541
According to General Relativity an object can pass through an event horizon of a black hole as if it were normal space. From the object's perspective, there would be no difference between normal space and the event horizon of a black hole.

However, according to quantum mechanics there is a "firewall" at the event horizon that breaks down all matter to its base components, a quark–gluon plasma. So an object passing the event horizon of a black hole would be completely obliterated.

Both of these theories cannot be true.

Stephen Hawking's solution combines both GR and QM and conforms with the law of conservation of energy that states energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Hawking already demonstrated in the 1970s that black holes evaporate over time through a process called Hawking Radiation. Hawking's new theory suggests that all the information stored in a black hole will eventually be released through evaporation, although not in the same manner in which it entered the black hole.

It should also be noted that Hawking's paper was published January 22, 2014, is only two pages in length with no mathematical proofs, and has not been peer-reviewed yet.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:27 AM
 
Location: North America
19,784 posts, read 15,119,250 times
Reputation: 8527
The only thing in question, it seems is that things CAN escape from a black hole, instead of being destroyed by it.

But, don't let that stop the anti-science rant. After all, science hasn't given us anything of merit.

Oh, wait, yes it has.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:27 AM
 
1,634 posts, read 1,210,298 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
According to General Relativity an object can pass through an event horizon of a black hole as if it were normal space. From the object's perspective, there would be no difference between normal space and the event horizon of a black hole.

However, according to quantum mechanics there is a "firewall" at the event horizon that breaks down all matter to its base components, a quark–gluon plasma. So an object passing the event horizon of a black hole would be completely obliterated.

Both of these theories cannot be true.

And this was the basis for Stephen Crothers challenge. My question is, how has such a large field of varying disciplines left that theory unchecked and/or took it for face value? I find humor in the fact that people on City Data will make hammerfisted statements like..

"You just don't understand"

But an entire field was either willfully ignorant, blatantly sophist or just completely lost. Because they were called out on a very fundamental principle of physics.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:32 AM
 
1,634 posts, read 1,210,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
The only thing in question, it seems is that things CAN escape from a black hole, instead of being destroyed by it.

But, don't let that stop the anti-science rant. After all, science hasn't given us anything of merit.

Oh, wait, yes it has.
If the "physicists" were doing actual, disciplined PHYSICS...they would have known this to be the only possible truth.

of course, leave it to clowns like you to trivialize century old dogma that is about to be destroyed.

Because we all know how scientists HATE THAT, RIGHT???
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:35 AM
 
Location: North America
19,784 posts, read 15,119,250 times
Reputation: 8527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin_Muzik_NJ View Post
If the "physicists" were doing actual, disciplined PHYSICS...they would have known this to be the only possible truth.

of course, leave it to clowns like you to trivialize century old dogma that is about to be destroyed.

Because we all know how scientists HATE THAT RIGHT???

Huh??? Anger management not working??

Theory is just that, Chin, theory. It remains until disproven.

Does that prove science is useless? Nope. And I never said it did.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,462,250 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by carterstamp View Post
The only thing in question, it seems is that things CAN escape from a black hole, instead of being destroyed by it.

But, don't let that stop the anti-science rant. After all, science hasn't given us anything of merit.

Oh, wait, yes it has.
Yep. That appears to be what Hawking is saying.

That was the biggest problem with Einstein's GR, it violates the law of conservation by claiming energy can be destroyed by a black hole. But if you replace the singularity with an "apparent horizon" that can increase or shrink depending upon the amount of stuff it contains, then it does not violate the law of conservation.

What I found particularly interesting was that the event horizon and "apparent horizon" can be different. When the event horizon is larger than the "apparent horizon" we see the absence light. To the outside observer everything appears to be sucked into a black hole. However, if the "apparent horizon" is larger than the event horizon we would see an object that is glowing brightly.

It will be interesting to read more on the subject in the future. I understand how to calculate the event horizon of a black hole, but I have no idea how to calculate Hawking's new "apparent horizon."
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Old 01-28-2014, 10:46 AM
 
2,687 posts, read 2,186,593 times
Reputation: 1478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chin_Muzik_NJ View Post
Because..

1 - there is no direct evidence

and

2 - the definition of a black hole is in direct contradiction with Newtonian physics and GR. (Look at the video posted by Shiloh1)

And...that physicists do not seem to care much about their explanation outside of the math.

Those are the main ones.

Do you have any reason to believe they DO?
The video posted by Shiloh1 features not a scientist, but a mathematician who is also a young-earth creationist (his anti-science views that have been thoroughly debunked by actual scientists are why he lost his job as a university professor).


And the thunderbolt project wasn't founded by a scientist and doesn't include much in the way of science, it's mythology (literally, it is based on mythology) founded by a guy (David Talbot) with a B.S. in political science who writes about mythology and alternative history.


That is such a fail on your part it's absolutely hilarious.
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