Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:05 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,530,565 times
Reputation: 4014

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
They never outgrow the frisson of paranoia.
Well, at least they outgrew Republicanism...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:14 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,530,565 times
Reputation: 4014
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeDallasite View Post
...into a dictatorship. That's my concern anyway.
On the basis of what? All those elections and referendums? That's not typical dictatorial style, actually. You'd expect more in the way of edicts and proclamations from a dictator.

More specifically than just plain what, what that is so egregious that it would cause you to support the concentration of all political and economic power in Venezuela into the hands of a few who then use that power to line their own pockets, protect their own interests, and deprive everybody else of even the basics of a decent life?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 42,209,788 times
Reputation: 3861
Back to topic: maybe what this country needs to do is boycott Chavez-------as it stands: the man is skating on thin ice I suspect back home.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,333,366 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeDallasite View Post
...into a dictatorship. That's my concern anyway.

I've known many Venezuelans in my life; I've heard more about Hugo Chavez in the early 1990s than a lot of Americans have since he took power, and I have yet to meet a Venezuelan who has anything but negative things to say about him. He's a lying scumbag dictator; he wants to be Fidel II.
He is forcing people to vote "his" way - "his" elections and referendums are far from being "free" in any way

He stifles discent - shuts down radio and tv stations. Uses threats -

He is a dictator
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Maple Valley, WA
982 posts, read 3,312,062 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
On the basis of what? All those elections and referendums? That's not typical dictatorial style, actually. You'd expect more in the way of edicts and proclamations from a dictator.

More specifically than just plain what, what that is so egregious that it would cause you to support the concentration of all political and economic power in Venezuela into the hands of a few who then use that power to line their own pockets, protect their own interests, and deprive everybody else of even the basics of a decent life?
I would rather see that power in the hands of a few than in the hands of one.
And why does Chavez need to change these election rules, anyway? How is that improving the lives of his citizens?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,203 posts, read 27,158,886 times
Reputation: 3947
Whether Chavez is a dictator or not is irrelevant. What is important is Venezuela is one of our trading partners, and we receive oil from them. It is therefore essential we take our own interests into consideration, not focus on another country's politics.

If Chavez doesn't suit this country, we need to find other sources for this resource!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2007, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Hernando County, FL
8,489 posts, read 20,692,767 times
Reputation: 5397
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
On the basis of what? All those elections and referendums? That's not typical dictatorial style, actually. You'd expect more in the way of edicts and proclamations from a dictator.

More specifically than just plain what, what that is so egregious that it would cause you to support the concentration of all political and economic power in Venezuela into the hands of a few who then use that power to line their own pockets, protect their own interests, and deprive everybody else of even the basics of a decent life?
You mean basics like milk and cooking oil. There is a scarcity of these and other basic necessities because state run markets that have stifled competetion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2007, 10:25 AM
 
Location: in my imagination
13,621 posts, read 21,440,506 times
Reputation: 10145
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Hugo Chavez was born in a mud hut, the second son of two school teachers. Like virtually all of his generation growing up under the brutal rule of the caudillos and the Oligarchy, his life was one of austerity and poverty. Mornings, he fished with his father before school so that the family could have better food. Weekends, he sold sweets made by his grandmother in the market so the family could have enough money for new clothes and shoes. At 17, he was admitted to the Academy of Military Sciences (the equivalent of West Point) graduating as a second-lieutenant. There followed a 17-year military career, during which time he rose to the rank of lieutenant colonel. He commanded paratrooper units and also held a variety teaching and administrative positions at the Academy during those years. In 1992, he led a 12,000-man coup against the caudillos. The coup ultimately failed, but not before Chavez was able to give an impassioned nationally televised speech that made him a household name. Chavez was imprisoned for the coup, but popular support led to his release in 1994. In 1998, he was overwhelmingly elected to the Presidency, and he has been easily re-elected several times since in elections that have been certified as free and fair by teams of international observers. He draws his support from the lower and middle economic classes...people who, since 1998, have seen their needs taken seriously for the first time in their lives. His opposition comes from wealthy landowners, industrialists, and communications moguls...the very people who made up the Oligarchy that oppressed the Venezuelan people for more than three decades before Chavez came to power. The oligarchs are tired of seeing the country's oil wealth wasted on the welfare of peasants and would like to return to the days when they kept all that for themselves. The Bush administration sides with the Oligarchy on this...
Without going into the arguement of redistribution.Once a leader sets himself up for life,changes the Constitution with strong arm tactics,and dismantles the election process to where it means nothing...that leader is no longer "for the people",and every leader for the poor,be it Chavez,Castro and such always falls prey to the "I am the one" mentality".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2007, 10:33 AM
 
Location: in my imagination
13,621 posts, read 21,440,506 times
Reputation: 10145
Saganista,pick your perfect candidate you would like to see elected president for America.

Fast forward 4 years latter your president now declares the Constitution void,declares MSNBC,FOX,CNN and all media to be state run with his oversight.Declares that election terms should be made to 20 years because he "needs" to retain the office to insure his just policies continue to protect the interests of the poor.

I can just say one thing to that scenerio,American civil war number 2.Of course most leaders who would do this know this therefore this is why they make sure only their loyaltists are the ones armed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-01-2007, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Thumb of Michigan
4,494 posts, read 7,495,265 times
Reputation: 2541
Default Off topic again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Once a leader sets himself up for life,changes the Constitution with strong arm tactics,and dismantles the election process to where it means nothing...that leader is no longer "for the people",and every leader for the poor,be it Chavez,Castro and such always falls prey to the "I am the one" mentality".
You'd have to admit there are some parallels as to what's taken place right here in the U.S. Some sublte things are the Dem/Rep are in it togehter. The idea that there are two parties with different views is an illusion at best. Therefore, the election process is basically null. The parties haven't been 'for the people' for quite some time as in hearing what the constituents say/want/need.

As far as the constitution goes, that has been dismantled in a sense via the authoritarion 'decider' for war. Plus, it is a 'living' document which is always (in the minds of power..) open to interpretation.

(off topic though...)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top