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Well, guess what? Giving them SSNs actually codifies them as taxpayers! Isn't that a good thing? And if they're filing taxes, they're TAXPAYERS! Sounds like the American way. Unlike those transnational corporations who hire fancy lawyers to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.
Almost half of lower-income working legal U.S. citizens pay zero federal income taxes.
And many receive an "earned income" tax refund even though they pay no taxes.
Why would you think it would be any different for illegals who don't earn very much?
Under Obama's executive order, a whole bunch of non-federal-taxpaying illegals are now going to be PAID by the U.S. treasury!
They are taxpayers ONLY if they are paying taxes. I'm not so sure if that's the case. Since they are overwhelmingly poor and have dependents, it's just as likely that they are receiving a multitude of tax credits and tax refunds. Our tax system favors very rich and very poor. The rest of us- not so much. Do you have any proof that they would PAY income taxes and not get back more than what they pay?
Actually, legalizing currently employed undocumented workers would definitely make them taxpayers, if for nothing else, social security and medicare. It would enable them to seek better jobs, and then become federal taxpayers if they weren't already paying income federal taxes.
How is some hard working Mexican or Guatamalan who's picking veggies or working construction NOT contributing more to the US than some fundamentalist Mormon "patriarch" with 4 "wives" and a dozen kids, all of whom are on welfare, or some low-life redneck cooking meth in his apartment in a multifamily house also occupied by senior citizens and families with children? My guess is that the real issue here is that the "illegal" isn't white and doesn't speak what passes for English in some parts of the country.
I think that it would be very hard to prove that point since the various welfare, social security and government support channels are not monitored on a holistic way so...
If they somehow paid taxes before, why not. If not, I suppose that they will have to be considered like new workers starting to contribute to the system.
I don't even know how to look for such information as usually, everyone filters out the figures to manipulate them and show that undocumented immigrants are shrinking the system by abusing all types of programs or being net contributors through consumption. However, I still believe that it can't be wrong to add more taxpayers in the system to make them contribute, if they did not do so before.
How about instead of adding illegal aliens to our tax roles that Americans get their jobs back from them and they in turn would be paying into our tax coffers instead of being on unemployment and welfare?
Undocumented workers is the term used to define who they are, people without proper administrative documents. And they already have no rights in this country except the basic human ones so I really don't see your point.
For the jobs part, that's more to do with people hiring them. Hit them and you will get more results, but I still don't think Americans would take those jobs we're talking about, due to "prestige" and wages issues. But the world will not change just for those little children, and that has nothing to do with those workers you point out.
No, it's just a liberal PC term for them that has been twisted from what they actually are according to immigration law which is "illegal aliens". Obama is giving them all kinds of rights in this country rather than just basic human rights. You know it and so does everyone else so why deny it? Yes, the employers need to be held accountable but illegal aliens aren't the innocents here either. Americans won't take construction, landscaping, restaurant jobs, etc.? Who do you think did them prior to the arrival of millions of cheap, illegal aliens? Those jobs use to pay a fair and liveable wage. What children are you talking about? Just removing the job incentives will not stop illegal immigration. Just as long as they are able to get benefits thru their anchor kids they can still survive here. The constant promises of amnesty are another magnet that brings them here.
No, it's just a liberal PC term for them that has been twisted from what they actually are according to immigration law which is "illegal aliens". Obama is giving them all kinds of rights in this country rather than just basic human rights. You know it and so does everyone else so why deny it? Yes, the employers need to be held accountable but illegal aliens aren't the innocents here either. Americans won't take construction, landscaping, restaurant jobs, etc.? Who do you think did them prior to the arrival of millions of cheap, illegal aliens? Those jobs use to pay a fair and liveable wage. What children are you talking about? Just removing the job incentives will not stop illegal immigration. Just as long as they are able to get benefits thru their anchor kids they can still survive here. The constant promises of amnesty are another magnet that brings them here.
This has nothing to do with being politically correct or not. It's just the truth to say that those people do not have the right paperwork. Precision is everything.
That Americans were doing those jobs before is irrelevant in today's macroeconomic landscape. The reality is that Americans want $15 for a job that only pays $9 (according to wehotex).
What we're saying is that an action plan has priorities, nobody cares about those undocumented people if they do not disturb the system. The USA are not Europe, there is no general social welfare system for them. Even Americans are not correctly covered in this regard compared to Europeans so...
However if you fine correctly the employers, then you might see an improvement on the job market. We might because the real issue is that the $9 job is at that price for a reason.
Then it will go either ways:
- Either the employers will take the benefits shrink and keep their current prices for consumers
- Or they will try to raise the prices to reflect this new cost
But if one of them does not, they're back to square zero and they risk going out of business. However if they coordinate their prices, it would be price fixing.
Social dumping is a complex issue that cannot be dealt with just thinking at one topic. Simplifying it won't make the topic simple. Even summer jobs are a form of social dumping, and they're done by students, not undocumented immigrants that you love to stigmatize.
The real question is: Are you ready to pay more to Small and Medium Enterprises? And before responding, are you even "able" to? I might be wrong, but I don't think most Americans can afford to pay higher prices on retail objects / services. They even barely cope with inflation. And I am not the one saying it, I am one of those you would call "privileged" - even though I strongly contest that categorization everyday .
If Americans are ready to pay for more in order to hire Americans even at the cost of their quality of life, I think there is nothing to say. Let the government fine those employers, force them to hire citizens first with a correct pay and reflect it to their products. Voila!
The other solution: live within your means... but consumption will drop and I am not sure that would help the overall job market.
Actually, legalizing currently employed undocumented workers would definitely make them taxpayers, if for nothing else, social security and medicare. It would enable them to seek better jobs, and then become federal taxpayers if they weren't already paying income federal taxes.
How is some hard working Mexican or Guatamalan who's picking veggies or working construction NOT contributing more to the US than some fundamentalist Mormon "patriarch" with 4 "wives" and a dozen kids, all of whom are on welfare, or some low-life redneck cooking meth in his apartment in a multifamily house also occupied by senior citizens and families with children? My guess is that the real issue here is that the "illegal" isn't white and doesn't speak what passes for English in some parts of the country.
Sure, pull out the race card for someone who cares. I am Mex-american and I am against illegal amnesty as much as anyone on this thread. Why would you pull out the most extreme people from american society and present them as regular folk? A very small percentage of the illegals actually pick vegetables anymore. Most are in construction, fast food, hospitality. Those are all very low income jobs, with the exception of possibly construction. Why would I want them to seek better jobs? I prefer that good jobs would go to americans, no matter their race, ethnicity or color. Does anyone care about the welfare of americans anymore?
Most of those Americans are busy keeping their 4 wives pregnant or cooking up some meth in the garage.
What utter nonsense! So formerly employed construction workers all of a sudden decided to do the above after illegal aliens took their jobs? That applies to every other industry that illegals took over also. I can't believe the outright hate in here by liberals for the American worker.
This has nothing to do with being politically correct or not. It's just the truth to say that those people do not have the right paperwork. Precision is everything.
That Americans were doing those jobs before is irrelevant in today's macroeconomic landscape. The reality is that Americans want $15 for a job that only pays $9 (according to wehotex).
What we're saying is that an action plan has priorities, nobody cares about those undocumented people if they do not disturb the system. The USA are not Europe, there is no general social welfare system for them. Even Americans are not correctly covered in this regard compared to Europeans so...
However if you fine correctly the employers, then you might see an improvement on the job market. We might because the real issue is that the $9 job is at that price for a reason.
Then it will go either ways:
- Either the employers will take the benefits shrink and keep their current prices for consumers
- Or they will try to raise the prices to reflect this new cost
But if one of them does not, they're back to square zero and they risk going out of business. However if they coordinate their prices, it would be price fixing.
Social dumping is a complex issue that cannot be dealt with just thinking at one topic. Simplifying it won't make the topic simple. Even summer jobs are a form of social dumping, and they're done by students, not undocumented immigrants that you love to stigmatize.
The real question is: Are you ready to pay more to Small and Medium Enterprises? And before responding, are you even "able" to? I might be wrong, but I don't think most Americans can afford to pay higher prices on retail objects / services. They even barely cope with inflation. And I am not the one saying it, I am one of those you would call "privileged" - even though I strongly contest that categorization everyday .
If Americans are ready to pay for more in order to hire Americans even at the cost of their quality of life, I think there is nothing to say. Let the government fine those employers, force them to hire citizens first with a correct pay and reflect it to their products. Voila!
The other solution: live within your means... but consumption will drop and I am not sure that would help the overall job market.
Why not use the correct immigration law for them which is illegal aliens? It's because you and others want to play down the fact that they violated our immigration laws so you put some PC term on what they are to make them more palatable. You guys fool no one. There is no such term as "undocumented worker or immigrant" in our immigration laws. Yes precision is everything and they are illegal aliens like it or not.
Employers will have to pay a fair wage without illegal aliens here. You know, like they once did. Did we see these so-called enormous rises in costs then? No we didn't! Besides, even if costs went up when you factor in the lower taxes because we won't have to be covering their social costs prices over all would probably go down. An employer will either hire Americans or legal immigrants or go out of business. Too bad, so sad that they won't be able to increase their profits while breaking the law. That's not a good thing to you? Do our laws mean nothing to you? WTH?
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