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8.8 million recieve Obamacare subsidies for individual plans.
2.9 million who do not qualify for subsidies on individual plans deduct the cost of premiums.
50 million ( 2010) are enrolled in Medicaid and are subsidized.
50 million are enrolled in Medicare and are subsidized.
150 million are enrolled in their employers' subsidized healthcare plans. Employee premiums are paid with pre-tax $. Employers deduct the cost of that portion of employee premiums they pay. Small business employers can recieve a 50% credit which can carry back or forward.
Employee cost is a factor in the price of goods and services. Regardless of cost, everything is sold for as high a price as the market will bear, at the point of sale.
Holy Cannoli! Middle-Aged-Mom? Many thanks & much respect for being the MOM in the room (thread, forum, et cetera ...) !! Your posts to this thread have made it worth the time it takes to read this thread in its entirety. I also appreciate the 'less drama, more critical thinking' quality.
Hope you don't think I'm 'gushing' (too much)?
Just this last part alone: You said, "Regardless of cost, everything is sold for as high a price as the market will bear, at the point of sale." I think there's a difference between a form of government (democracy, republic, monarchy ...) & a type of economic system (capitalism, market, mixed ...). (Stating the obvious) the US is a 'mixed economy' & IMHO is still struggling to find the 'sweet spot' where the balance works. In a 'pure' (no such thing) capitalist economy, the long story short version is its basic profit-driven incentive is to charge as much money as possible for providing as few goods and services as possible. As you said: "as much as the market will or can bear."
I think I'm responding to your first post to this thread? In any event, you went on to identify other important ideas or concepts to consider in later posts. One of them being how other Countries have different challenges & are dealing with them differently. To each its own. IMHO the US can learn from the examples set by other Countries, there's no reason to be petty or have 'tunnel vision' about it.
It's amazing--premiums rose at the lowest rate in ages last year, yet every right-winger on the internet claims their premiums practically doubled. Strong lying is strong.
Subsidies are projected to grow from $4000 on average to $6600 over the next 10 years.
Thats more than a 50% increase, for something that according to you, isnt increasing in cost.
I guess technically its not lying to suggest your premiums arent going up, of course if you fall into one of the handout recipients.
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,141,865 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser
Don't tell me I'm taking money from you guys. I've worked and paid taxes longer than some of you have been alive.
I'm assuming if you worked and paid taxes longer than some of us have been alive, you are on Medicare? Which means you contributed through payroll taxes for your healthcare... I don't think anyone here would deny that if you worked, became disabled and especially now are on Medicare that you didn't earn that right.
I'm going to be honest here, it's the folks who have that "attitude" that I can not tolerate anymore. Those who won't admit that there are other folks paying for them through subsidies or increased premiums. All those folks need to do is "man (or woman) UP." Admit it. That they need help. That they appreciate it. Don't give the attitude that just because they are breathing they have a right to my money.
Quote:
My taxes went to support your parents on Social Security. They paid for the roads you drive on. They paid for the public schools your kids go to and that one is a really touchy one for me, since I didn't have kids. I mean, why should I have to support yours? You see, the taxes we pay work both ways. Because your taxes are used to pay for something that you don't like doesn't make you special or an exception. We all pay taxes for things we'll never use and don't agree with.
Yes, you paid SS, more than likely for your grandparents and then parents maybe. You paid a part for roads but a bigger part of the roads comes through the taxes on gasoline. And MOST, but not all school funding comes through real estate taxes and your local community taxes.
Look I'm not saying that we all shouldn't have to pay taxes. Absolutely not. But there comes a tipping point when, once again, admit it... Some of us pay A LOT more than others for the same services and it has become a very very un-even scale.
Holy Cannoli! Middle-Aged-Mom? Many thanks & much respect for being the MOM in the room (thread, forum, et cetera ...) !! Your posts to this thread have made it worth the time it takes to read this thread in its entirety. I also appreciate the 'less drama, more critical thinking' quality.
Hope you don't think I'm 'gushing' (too much)?
Just this last part alone: You said, "Regardless of cost, everything is sold for as high a price as the market will bear, at the point of sale." I think there's a difference between a form of government (democracy, republic, monarchy ...) & a type of economic system (capitalism, market, mixed ...). (Stating the obvious) the US is a 'mixed economy' & IMHO is still struggling to find the 'sweet spot' where the balance works. In a 'pure' (no such thing) capitalist economy, the long story short version is its basic profit-driven incentive is to charge as much money as possible for providing as few goods and services as possible. As you said: "as much as the market will or can bear."
I think I'm responding to your first post to this thread? In any event, you went on to identify other important ideas or concepts to consider in later posts. One of them being how other Countries have different challenges & are dealing with them differently. To each its own. IMHO the US can learn from the examples set by other Countries, there's no reason to be petty or have 'tunnel vision' about it.
Very Sincerely,
Thanks & respect.
Umm, every type of medicine that does NOT involve massive government spending driving fraud and prices through the roof has seen LOWER costs and IMPROVED quality over time, for decades. Vision correction surgery, cosmetic surgery...not screwed up by government spending. Just like every other part of the economy, these small competitive slices of health care brings us more benefits for lower cost year after year.
Regardless of cost, somebody somewhere is trying to price things a little bit lower to get the business. Everybody wants to get the most for their money.
Except in health care. There, for the most part, "somebody else" pays. For a very long time insurance companies were somebody else, increasingly the government is the somebody else. And that means all of us are on the hook. The ACA did virtually nothing for this problem, except via huge deductibles and the most massive coinsurance ever seen--mine is 50%, unheard of before the ACA.
We need real reform of the health care marketplace and delivery and financing systems.
Is anyone shocked by these figures? with out the subsidies HC insurance offered on the exchange would be unaffordable.
Conservative posters {I am one} love to bring up that 50% of workers make $10 or less an hour and 75% make less then 35,000 to prove that the Obama economy is not that good. Then is the next breath they spout how everyone should pay for their own HC insurance. The facts are with out the subsidies the poor are priced out of HC insurance by no fault of their own.
Case in point, I picked a plan that had the right amount of coverage for a person of my age. It is a good plan and is on par with the coverage my sister has purchased out side the exchange. My subsidy is $457 a month and on my end I pay $87. My budget allows me to pay 187 a month on HC which is used for co pays and paying down bills that the insurance did not cover.
I can barely afford Obamacare like millions of others, I know, I know I should get a 2nd job or go to college etc ,etc. Between work and home life I have enough on my plate and most people would not want to be me. The point is how do conservatives knowing that 75% of the country is not making squat expect people to buy HC insurance that is not affordable with out subsidies?
We don't expect that. The Republicans already had presented targeted reforms to the healthcare system to cover previous conditions and people who cannot afford coverage. The Democrats voted those measures down, then used dishonest rhetoric about the Republicans having no solutions to get Obamacare passed. The entire Obamacare incident was an exercise in complete dishonesty on the part of the Democrat party but also an exercise in excellent spin and media. You are an example of that, being a self avowed conservative who obviously fell for the liberal rhetoric about the healthcare issue. The Republican party did have solutions and did not expect children with downs syndrome to fend for themselves. You can look at the GOP Party website to see those solutions that the Democrats claimed did not exist.
The objection to Obamacare being that poor people should pay their own insurance is a liberal fabrication. The objection to Obamacare is that it is government controlled. That's the objection. The Republicans wanted to institute measures to lower healthcare costs and to allow people to purchase health insurance on the private market rather than have a government bureaucracy issue mandates about who must have coverage and what that coverage must entail.
The conservative problem with Obamacare isn't the subsidies, it's the government mandates. The issue of the subsidies being opposed by conservatives is a liberal narrative created to make Republicans look bad and divert attention from the true objections, which is that Obamacare requires people to purchase health coverage that they may not want, such as requiring people to buy coverage for drug rehabilitation whether they want it or not, require single men to purchase coverage that offers women birth control for zero copay, require devout Catholics to purchase coverage of abortion drugs, etc.
Earn it. Like SO many of us have to do. Trade community service work for ACA subsidies and other forms of public assistance. Except the genuinely incapacitated, of course, but even my developmentally disabled step-sister works a part-time job in exchange for part of her room and board in a group home.
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