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You think a Jewish sign maker should be forced to make Hate signs for a skinhead Nazi group ?
How about an Abortion supporter to cater a Anti Abortion dinner ?
I'll give you a Canadian example.
First situation.
No. A neo nazi group can be refused service in Canada because such a group is illegal. Promoting hatred is illegal. So yes, ANY sign maker could find themselves in trouble for making the sign in the first place.
Of course we are talking about a sign that is obviously a neo nazi one and one to be used for neo nazi purposes.
No sign maker would be worried if the sign was for a play, movie or some other non neo nazi purpose.
The second situation.
In Canada they would have to. You open a business and you must serve everyone that is protected by law, which includes gay people and pro-abortion people. Although, I have to say, in Canada, most people don't go around even discussing abortion or whether they are pro or not.
Well, it seems those who are not religious bigots in Indiana are willing to be up front about it. Many businesses have started putting up signs at their establishments that proclaim: "This business serves everyone."
Let's see if the religious bigots will be as willing to stand on their beliefs and put up signs saying who they will not serve. But I won't hold my breath. As you say, that would take courage.
Sometimes I think it's best to let the 'drama' play itself out. (& sometimes it seems there's no other choice) Granted, I think there's more immediate & more important issues for legislators to consider. Common (& economic) sense often prevail. Remember the 'emotions on display' when the 'Open Carry' laws were flaunted? Remember also when national & local food & beverage chains chimed in? Common (& economic) sense prevailed then too.
Well, it seems those who are not religious bigots in Indiana are willing to be up front about it. Many businesses have started putting up signs at their establishments that proclaim: "This business serves everyone."
Let's see if the religious bigots will be as willing to stand on their beliefs and put up signs saying who they will not serve. But I won't hold my breath. As you say, that would take courage.
Posting signs on who they will not serve should have been an absolute requirement. As it is, it's better to just assume all of Indiana supports the law and not do business with anyone in Indiana.
Posting signs on who they will not serve should have been an absolute requirement. As it is, it's better to just assume all of Indiana supports the law and not do business with anyone in Indiana.
I agree, it should have been a requirement written right into the law. Make the bigots actually stand on their convictions publicly, right there for all to see.
Maybe instead of tarring all of Indiana for the actions of the bigots in the state, just refrain from doing business with any establishment that doesn't display the sign saying they serve all customers. That would be as effective as requiring bigots to own their bigotry publicly.
I agree, it should have been a requirement written right into the law. Make the bigots actually stand on their convictions publicly, right there for all to see.
Maybe instead of tarring all of Indiana for the actions of the bigots in the state, just refrain from doing business with any establishment that doesn't display the sign saying they serve all customers. That would be as effective as requiring bigots to own their bigotry publicly.
I'm not sure Indiana deserves such kindness but you're classy to suggest it. I think a negative economic impact serves to remind voters to be careful who they elect. They don't live on an island and they depend on the money beyond Indiana borders. When they feel the economic pain, perhaps they will be less inclined to support Republicans like Pence.
So he, no doubt, finds the sex acts of gays to be incredibly repugnant and wanted nothing to do with them.
You have written this at least a dozen times. I believe heterosexuals perform similar acts. There's a lot of comedy written about it and it's been referenced in movies like Bridget Jones and Downton Abbey.
I'm not sure Indiana deserves such kindness but you're classy to suggest it. I think a negative economic impact serves to remind voters to be careful who they elect. They don't live on an island and they depend on the money beyond Indiana borders. When they feel the economic pain, perhaps they will be less inclined to support Republicans like Pence.
I think in addition to claiming they have 'God on their side' they also wanted to be reassured they had the 'Law on their side.'
Lots of folks have claimed they had 'God on their side.' Both sides of the American Civil War asserted.
Long story short: even if a group could prove they have 'God on their side' & somehow succeeded in coercing the Laws to support, the US is not a theocracy. There would be valid challenges.
If we are going to discuss this, we should stay in the real world and not some alternate universe where someone opens a hamburger business and then refuses to sell to anyone. It's just silly.
So your point one I'm ignoring.
I was establishing that it isn't wrong to refuse service to everybody and keep your product to yourself (because you own it, so can choose to keep it, give it away, or trade it.)The next examples just take the same logic and apply it to different situations. I'm saying that, since the product is yours to keep, give, or sell, a third party shouldn't intervene and force you to use it how they decide you should use it. If you don't want to sell to someone, fine. You aren't violating anyone's rights by refusing service, although you might be a jerk if you discriminate against people for irrational reasons.
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Your second point is seemingly even more bizarre. The law is the law. It is NOT an opinion. Where did I ever
post that we need to threaten people with violence? You've really gone off here.
The law is a threat of violence. Any law. If you disobey, they might fine you at first. If you don't pay their fine, they get increasingly violent. The logical conclusion of disobeying government authority, no matter what they order you to do or not do, is locking you in a cage or killing you. You might give in and obey them before it gets to that point, but if you stand by your decision to disobey then they physically assault you. There's no reasoning in that scenario. Obey or we hurt you.
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What you fail to grasp is that when you open a business, you do not have the right to discriminate. It's not an option. What do you think the 1960's were about in your country when blacks decided to sit at the lunch counter with whites?
It was a social movement and it did a lot of good. People these days are far less racist and discriminatatory than they were back then, and that isn't because the government told them to be. Most of us have moved past that paradigm and aren't going back. Let the small minority of existing racists deny blacks business. Their loss. All the other businesses will benefit and welcome blacks.
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Another thing you are conveniently forgetting is that business ALREADY has to operate in a plethora of laws and regulations. I don't see health inspectors in restaurants carrying firearms.
I'm really at a loss of why you are bringing guns into this argument. All that happens to businesses that don't abide by the law, is that their business license is revoked or refused.
Refer to my earlier point, and I'll add that I don't care what the law says. The law doesn't make things right and wrong. I'm going to follow my own conscience regardless of what anyone else tells me to do.
I was establishing that it isn't wrong to refuse service to everybody and keep your product to yourself (because you own it, so can choose to keep it, give it away, or trade it.)The next examples just take the same logic and apply it to different situations. I'm saying that, since the product is yours to keep, give, or sell, a third party shouldn't intervene and force you to use it how they decide you should use it. If you don't want to sell to someone, fine. You aren't violating anyone's rights by refusing service, although you might be a jerk if you discriminate against people for irrational reasons.
The law is a threat of violence. Any law. If you disobey, they might fine you at first. If you don't pay their fine, they get increasingly violent. The logical conclusion of disobeying government authority, no matter what they order you to do or not do, is locking you in a cage or killing you. You might give in and obey them before it gets to that point, but if you stand by your decision to disobey then they physically assault you. There's no reasoning in that scenario. Obey or we hurt you.
It was a social movement and it did a lot of good. People these days are far less racist and discriminatatory than they were back then, and that isn't because the government told them to be. Most of us have moved past that paradigm and aren't going back. Let the small minority of existing racists deny blacks business. Their loss. All the other businesses will benefit and welcome blacks.
Refer to my earlier point, and I'll add that I don't care what the law says. The law doesn't make things right and wrong. I'm going to follow my own conscience regardless of what anyone else tells me to do.
No offence meant here, but are you in High School?
No offence meant here, but are you in High School?
No. Why do you ask?
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