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People on here know, from my to-the -point nature of my posts on this subject, that I am not pleased with what I have observed with regard to blacks and their behavior at times. That being said, the OP comes across as an intelligent, decent human being and has asked some very good questions, and those questions deserve an honest response. However, being white, I can only answer you from that perspective.
As to the part about why ALL blacks are judged because of the actions of a FEW blacks, that , IMO, is the crux of the problem. It is not a FEW blacks, it is a disproportionately high percentage of blacks who live their lives contrary to what most people consider acceptable. These behaviors include :
Having multiple babies to multiple baby daddies (and the moms and dads seem to think this is the way it should be).
Sucking off of welfare instead of going out to work every day (like the rest of us).
Engaging in criminal behaviors (ranging from theft, drug dealing, and even murder) and not working with the police to solve these crimes, even when it is one of your neighbors who was a victim.
Generally not taking responsibility for your own problems, instead, you tend to blame everything from long gone slavery to the man trying to keep you down.
While poverty is certainly a factor in some of that, it is not the only factor. More than poverty is the unwillingness of a HUGE PERCENTAGE of blacks to want to elevate their lot in life. Even when given the tools to better themselves, many blacks destroy the things that might actually help them. (For example, we managed a low income apartment complex designed to provide blacks and other people with a nice, clean environment to raise their families, at a very low monthly rate.......some people only had to pay $25 a month. Yet, within 3 years it had become a Ghetto because the blacks treated it as a dumping ground for their litter, rammed their cars into the access gates, and generally made it a filthy , crime ridden neighborhood where even the cops would not come without backup.)
So, is it fair for us to paint all blacks with the same brush ? Absolutely not, but, when we see a black, how do we know if he is a decent human being or if he is going to stick a gun in our side and take our wallet ? Too many of your people do exactly that, and therein lies the problem......TOO MANY do it, not just a handful. Until you get those numbers down to just a small percentage of your people acting in the ways I have described, you will never get people to change their opinions of how blacks are.
Sorry, but you asked and I have to respect your question enough to answer honestly and fully.
Don
I'm not even going to attempt get you to understand that most of this is among the underclass within the Black population. I am going to say this.
Why should I care if anyone doesn't like Blacks? Why? I know what caring and agonizing over it gets me. Heart problems, high blood pressure, panic attacks, and a large reserve of anger. Where is the benefit of caring?
Something else. What do you expect me to do in terms of the behaviors you described, if I, pandorafan, and other decent Black people are doing our parts not to be part of that behavior? What more do you want?
I will end with this. The only thing I care about is what happens to me in the end. I don't care why you perceive Blacks the way you do, or why anyone else does. I care about one thing in the end. The bottom line. What I get out of it. I feel like what I do as an individual is enough, and if others do not feel the same way, well, they are the ones with a problem.
I get asked to take responsibility for the mistakes of previous white males all the time. At least the group you are held accountable against is alive. Some expect I need to right the wrongs of others that have been dead for 150 years.
Simply being asked to recognize that that this country has never fully healed from the wounds of slavery is not the same as being asked to take the blame for it.
Having multiple babies to multiple baby daddies (and the moms and dads seem to think this is the way it should be).
I have never met anyone who thinks this is how it should be . This is per hyperbole on your part. People get married have a kid, break up, meet someone new, that isnt subject to only black people
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Sucking off of welfare instead of going out to work every day (like the rest of us).
black unemployment rate is 10.5%, that means 89.5% have jobs, that is indeed a minority.
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Engaging in criminal behaviors (ranging from theft, drug dealing, and even murder) and not working with the police to solve these crimes, even when it is one of your neighbors who was a victim.
Contrary to the "dont snitch" narrative, we dont always know who did it, and even when we do, sometimes the police just dont do anything about it.
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Generally not taking responsibility for your own problems, instead, you tend to blame everything from long gone slavery to the man trying to keep you down.
Its funny, Conservatives for as long as I have been in politics have always blamed government for their problem claiming it obstructs all with its expansion of laws, and yet some how, that logic doesnt extend to black people ???????
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While poverty is certainly a factor in some of that, it is not the only factor. More than poverty is the unwillingness of a HUGE PERCENTAGE of blacks to want to elevate their lot in life. Even when given the tools to better themselves, many blacks destroy the things that might actually help them. (For example, we managed a low income apartment complex designed to provide blacks and other people with a nice, clean environment to raise their families, at a very low monthly rate.......some people only had to pay $25 a month. Yet, within 3 years it had become a Ghetto because the blacks treated it as a dumping ground for their litter, rammed their cars into the access gates, and generally made it a filthy , crime ridden neighborhood where even the cops would not come without backup.)
You have a right to your opinion here, but thats not all black people you are talking about one neighborhood. There is trailer park down the street that looks just as bad, and it is all white.
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So, is it fair for us to paint all blacks with the same brush ? Absolutely not, but, when we see a black, how do we know if he is a decent human being or if he is going to stick a gun in our side and take our wallet ? Too many of your people do exactly that, and therein lies the problem......TOO MANY do it, not just a handful. Until you get those numbers down to just a small percentage of your people acting in the ways I have described, you will never get people to change their opinions of how blacks are.
Would you be fine with a black person that had a similar experience as you making the same claims on whites ???
Also, why the hell is it that when the black middle class is addressed, it is just ASSumed that they did not work for it or that they are not hard workers at all?
Anyone care to elaborate?
There are more then enough black males who live up to the stereotype & to be honest they lump everyone into the same group. You see a black male wearing a dew rag or listening to rap in a SUV & people ASSmume thug.
I'm not even going to attempt get you to understand that most of this is among the underclass within the Black population. I am going to say this.
Why should I care if anyone doesn't like Blacks? Why? I know what caring and agonizing over it gets me. Heart problems, high blood pressure, panic attacks, and a large reserve of anger. Where is the benefit of caring?
Something else. What do you expect me to do in terms of the behaviors you described, if I, pandorafan, and other decent Black people are doing our parts not to be part of that behavior? What more do you want?
I will end with this. The only thing I care about is what happens to me in the end. I don't care why you perceive Blacks the way you do, or why anyone else does. I care about one thing in the end. The bottom line. What I get out of it. I feel like what I do as an individual is enough, and if others do not feel the same way, well, they are the ones with a problem.
We're talking about societal pressure, applying shame to hoodrat behavior instead of looking away or glorifying it through hip hop culture. YOU may not be the problem, but there is a cultural problem of blacks pointing fingers in the wrong direction instead of holding their brethren to a higher standard. Like Don said, it's quite more than just a "few" black people misbehaving.
I had no idea things were so bad in the black community until I moved to Atlanta and lived amongst it first hand. Now I see WHY people flee black neighborhoods- when the demographics change there is a 99% chance hoodrat behavior follows. It is rampant and it's not something white people can fix.
Simply being asked to recognize that that this country has never fully healed from the wounds of slavery is not the same as being asked to take the blame for it.
Who is denying slavery?
When ever slavery is brought up as reason for the failings of some in this day in age the next sentence is always how we need to either take money from someone and give it to them or provide systematic advantages that disadvantages non blacks.
Many could not and some would not hear this speech long ago for many reasons:
1. for some, the prejudice filled anguish Was at a Fever Pitch which resulted in contentiously and purposefully closed ears.
2. for decades it was discounted and given no focus or interest to actually listen, read and understand it.
3. some ignored it because they connected it with the anguish of the past, where whites detested the concept and realism of what is equality, it challenged and threatened their sense of superiority.
4. some ignored it because under the then Jim Crow grooming and indoctrination, anything said and spoken by a black person was discounted without review or investigation.
5. in some black sectors of today, it was considered talk of the past to revisit the speech, and they ignored to invest to learn from the history which helped them have voice today.
6. in schools it was ignored, because the trickle down from the tone set by Ivy League Institutions did not care about civic and civil rights, they were focused on and taught "greed by any means", and proceeded to teach graduates the concept of globalist economy at the expense of America people, so "ethics" or anything relative to ethics was disregard and civic responsibility was not a part of the teaching agenda, and so goes the Ivies" so goes the rest of Educational system in America.
7. Corporate entities do not want people to learn the truths of our struggles as American and stand up for the respect of American people. They only want to promote the policy to seek out slaves on foreign soil.
8. many whites who ignored the speech, missed out on the fact, that King's speech was as much a fight for their rights as for all people, in the "equality of citizen and person, as being American".
9. Industry influences Educational Institutions, they don't want truth, they want indoctrination to Corporate Policy and the Promotion of "only" CORPORATE INTEREST.
10. American need to learn what is "indenture", and how it functions within a system of Plutocracy, which buys away the voice of Democracy and equality upon which Democracy Stands.
I'd challenge each participant to go and read:
Martin Luther King Jr - The Speech at the Conclusion of the Selma March
Industrialist: INFLUENCED AND CREATED what is Segregation - Pitting one group against another and resulting to under-pay each ! People should truly grasp who and why the architects of such a brutal system and why and how it was promoted.
"Divide and Conquer" - the game played upon the poor and the destitute and the working poor. It is up to the generations of today, "To Learn" and to promote change. TOGETHER, both black and whites, because the game was rigged against the "lower economic groups of each ethnic and racial group".
When we face that realism, we then can move forth to build a better nation, when we understand the forces of the wealthy and their influence of political process engaged to assault and build policy against the rise of the poor. A determination to keep down the dire poor whites,manage and contain the working poor whites and blacks, and to ensure that the mass of minority population remained as members of a service class.
Look at simple things to see the broader truth. Commercialism, among Strong White Established Industry, promotes Rap and the Rap culture, because they see profit within it, but on the social side they use it to promote divides, but then turn around and what do you see? the remnants of the Hip Hop culture used in all types of Advertising and Promotions, while at the same time denigrating a ethnicity of people by the media news portrayal. It's called, confusion to keep the masses segregated and with wrongful depictions about each other. But on the ground floor what do we see, both black and white adopting some of the elements of Hip Hop as in being what they consider as "cool" both in black and white young culture.
We have to learn to see the big picture, and how profit uses what it can and denigrates what it cannot push to derive profit, it uses that to separate people. Not only across racial spectrum's, but within racial groups.
We should become aware to become wise - thenwe build Unity.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 05-16-2015 at 12:01 PM..
When ever slavery is brought up as reason for the failings of some in this day in age the next sentence is always how we need to either take money from someone and give it to them or provide systematic advantages that disadvantages non blacks.
It is never about 'taking money from one group and giving it to another"... It is about creating a level playing field, where opportunity is widespread and open for all.
It is as well, a means of saying , stop denigrating people for what they don't have and understand why they have long over history been precluded from having such. there was no property transfer over the ages, where blacks had it to pass down, it was no system where investment grew and they were passed down, because blacks were not allowed to have investments.
It is about understanding these dynamics and to stop assessing blacks against whites on 'who has what", and respect the fact that one can't expect blacks to have the historical legacy of wealth and means, as whites, because of the base fact of what is slavery and how segregation functioned. It is about such understanding.
Within such understanding, it leads to the compassionate realism of why Equality TODAY, is important and how and why it should be a base platform to stamp out historical discrimination based on such things as white accessibility and wealth accumulation vs measuring black people by such standards which were not available to black people for 100's of years.
No one has implied nor stated, for white people to take their money and divide it up among black people.
It is about making open opportunity for all with equal pay without focus on skin color or ethnic makeup.
American Industry went off shore, seeking slaves on foreign soil, WHY? in part to ensure there are limited means for blacks, poor whites and women, to have means to uplift themselves through their industrial contributions to employment and using such to become not only home owners, but a strong political presence in the lands of America. To deny such, was within a means of design to "move labor to foreign shores, to ensure the wealthy remain with a wide divide from the poor ( the poor being, blacks, poor whites, destitute whites and blacks and women).. It was simpler to the wealthy to make wealthy foreign nations, than to allow economic equilibrium to exist in America for all Americans to enjoy.
One can't measure blacks against Asians both those who immigrate and those who have long been here. It's two very different dynamics. Asian communities were left along to build themselves without interference, they were given accessibility that was denied to blacks, their business were patronized by whites, where black business had to survive on black patronage only.
Banks would lend to foreigners, both those who were American and those who were immigrants, but banks would not and did not lend to blacks, and if it did, the lending was substandard and the rates high, or collateral expected was beyond their ability to meet.
Then add in Foreign National banks, which were and is accessible to various Asian ethic groups, but do not readily lend to blacks.
Asian were generally sent to white schools with better educational programming, but for centuries and decades blacks were segregated.
One has to look at the 'whole of what is segregation and how it functions and how it still to this day functions".
Along with this came 'attitudes" born of many mis-conceptions, many of which sprang to high level saturation by the edicts of Jim Crow and the black codes which filled the concepts of society for generations, some of which is still passed along in 'how people perceive blacks" long before they have had any personal engagement with blacks. Which extend to those perceptions impacting how interaction with blacks in conducted in this very day of the 21st Century.
Ask yourself, what is " Psychological Trauma", White understand it very well when they are denied, disrespected or treated unfairly, and how they feel if they are taunted and bullied. Now how many centuries and decades were these very same things done to blacks, and they were done without even a hint of consideration of what it takes to cope with such. There was not a system in black society of psychologist or therapist, and if blacks had gone to such, they were then labeled as "flawed" and this added in another reason for white society to engage denial tactics against and upon blacks, even when blacks were merely seeking help to maintain a sense of self and esteem.
Today, when whites are Bullied, it becomes a whole society willing to combat bullying, but there was for many centuries and decades and still today, a segment of white society, who continues the bullying and endorsing it by a multitude of means upon and against blacks, and never respecting blacks with the same compassion and understanding it gives to whites for the ravages and damages of being bullied and systematically denied and looked at with suspicion without just cause, except for the mere fact of skin color.
Facing these truths is difficult for much of white society, because it means facing the truth of a historical legacy of the damaging nature of their ancestry and the pass down mentality and attitudes from their historical legacy. No one says wallow in guilt, but it ask only that one make adjustments to their conceptualization and mentality and embrace equality without a 'fixed criteria" of biased measurement.
Don't try and minimize these in depth things, with a delusion of falsely claiming someone is asking white people to re-distribute their money.
Learn better what is 'Equality" and how is it embraced and what does it take to dispel the bias, bigotry, racist divide inferences in what one has collectively been groomed to think based on a past of segregationist ideologies.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 05-16-2015 at 11:19 AM..
When ever slavery is brought up as reason for the failings of some in this day in age the next sentence is always how we need to either take money from someone and give it to them or provide systematic advantages that disadvantages non blacks.
I said denying that we havent healed, not denying slavery.
ill be more clear, claiming that everything is fine and dandy and that everyone really does have equal opportunity.
The first black generation to fully have the same rights as all Americans werent born until the 1970's.
Further more, name something that disadvantages non blacks ????
I have noticed the democratic party no longer is for the working man.. they are more interested in keeping cheap labor here via illegal immigrants.
Democratic party are now for the rich, which they have become .. they are no longer working for the betterment of bringing people out of poverty. They are creating poverty for the next generations to come with huge taxes and huge give aways bringing in more illegals raking in the freebees.. the legal Americans will foot the bill while using cheap labor to keep Unions weak and the working mans wages down. Black people as well as whites are unemployed , and keep poverty growing.
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