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That's what it boils down to. I don't even carry, but I respect the fact that these people are standing up for their rights.
Who said they couldn't carry? Is there some bill that congress is getting ready to pass that will deny him the right to carry? I sure haven't heard of any effort to restrict gun rights by the government. Nobody in this thread even said he didn't have the right to carry. They and I, (Who carries all the time), just think he's a self indulgent a$$hole, with a complex. A classic attention W#0r#.
He has the right to carry. I have the right to brand him however I see him. My 1st amendment right is just as valid as his 2nd amendment right.
Who said they couldn't carry? Is there some bill that congress is getting ready to pass that will deny him the right to carry? I sure haven't heard of any effort to restrict gun rights by the government. Nobody in this thread even said he didn't have the right to carry. They and I, (Who carries all the time), just think he's a self indulgent a$$hole, with a complex. A classic attention W#0r#.
He has the right to carry. I have the right to brand him however I see him. My 1st amendment right is just as valid as his 2nd amendment right.
I wasn't suggesting that. I was commenting on the article and what hunterseat had said.
Last edited by MoNative34; 06-06-2015 at 08:28 PM..
Reason: got it worked out with mohawkx :)
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,185,184 times
Reputation: 8105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2
Several years ago there was a mass killing in a cafeteria in Texas. Google it for the details. Over 20 some people died in that killing with 43 shot.. If I remember correctly at the time of the shooting Texas had either not passed Concealed Carry or the business place prohibited weapons on the premises. Quoted from Wikipedia, a source I usually do not trust,
. . . m "The Luby's shooting was a mass shooting that took place on October 16, 1991, at a restaurant in Killeen, Texas. George Hennard crashed his pickup truck through the front plate glass window of the Luby's Cafeteria at 1705 East Central Texas Expressway, shot 43 people, exchanged shots with responding police, and then hid in a bathroom and fatally shot himself"...
". . .
In response to the incident,[21] the Texas Legislature in 1995 passed a shall-issue gun law, which requires that all qualifying applicants be issued a Concealed Handgun License (the state's required permit to carry concealed weapons), removing the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny such licenses. To qualify for a license, one must be free-and-clear of crimes, attend a minimum 10-hour class taught by a state-certified instructor, pass a 50-question test, show proficiency in a 50-round shooting test, and pass two background tests, one shallow and one deep. The license costs $140 for a four-year license; in addition applicants must pay $10 for fingerprinting as well as instructor costs which vary.
The law had been campaigned for by Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the time of the shooting where both of her parents were shot and killed. She later expressed regret about deciding to leave her gun in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws; during the shootings, she reached for her weapon but then remembered that it was "a hundred feet away in my car."[22] She testified across the country in support of concealed handgun laws, and was elected to the Texas House of Representatives in 1996.[23] The law was signed by then-Governor George W. Bush.[24]
A simple pink granite memorial stands behind the Killeen Community Center with the date of the event and the names of those killed."
Now for the big What if. What if just one Law Abiding citizen would have been carrying a concealed weapon? Is it possible the number of injured and dead would have been much less?
Oh wait a minute! on that date Texas did not have a Concealed Carry Law or even an open carry Law as a matter of fact so there would not have been an ARMED Law Abiding citizen with a firearm there. Go to YouTube and do a search for the Video of Suzanna Hupp and listen to what she has to say about Gun Control. BTW her Father and Mother both died in front of her eyes and she was a Law Abiding citizen that had a firearm in the glove box of her car.
I don't understand why you think there would have been fewer casualties if some of the victims had been armed that day. It could have gone either way - maybe someone would have dropped him early on and lives might have been saved, but it's just as plausible to speculate that some of the patrons would have been shaking from an adrenaline rush and would have shot other patrons. Or no one might have been able to unfreeze and pull their weapon, so that the death toll would have been about the same.
When Jared Loughner pulled out his gun in Arizona and shot several people at a political rally, there were several people in the crowd who were carrying loaded handguns. None of them were able to draw them and shoot - and that might have been for the better, given the chances of hitting innocent bystanders in a dense crowd.
I don't know whether either easy gun laws or tough ones would make much of a difference one way or the other. I'm a bit concerned that having America awash in guns and letting almost anyone have one, will result in something similar problems that we saw in our Wild West, or that we see now in some African and Middle Eastern countries. But we'll see soon enough over the next decade, now that it's so much easier to get a carry permit in many states.
Location: Subconscious Syncope, USA (Northeastern US)
2,365 posts, read 2,154,150 times
Reputation: 3814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
I don't understand why you think there would have been fewer casualties if some of the victims had been armed that day. It could have gone either way - maybe someone would have dropped him early on and lives might have been saved, but it's just as plausible to speculate that some of the patrons would have been shaking from an adrenaline rush and would have shot other patrons. Or no one might have been able to unfreeze and pull their weapon, so that the death toll would have been about the same.
When Jared Loughner pulled out his gun in Arizona and shot several people at a political rally, there were several people in the crowd who were carrying loaded handguns. None of them were able to draw them and shoot - and that might have been for the better, given the chances of hitting innocent bystanders in a dense crowd.
I don't know whether either easy gun laws or tough ones would make much of a difference one way or the other. I'm a bit concerned that having America awash in guns and letting almost anyone have one, will result in something similar problems that we saw in our Wild West, or that we see now in some African and Middle Eastern countries. But we'll see soon enough over the next decade, now that it's so much easier to get a carry permit in many states.
Americans have always had guns. The Wild West still exists. If someone doesnt get an opportunity to use it, that's one thing. Only having the criminal or the crazy to possess them is something else.
There are plenty of remote areas all over America, where the poorly funded local police will never get to you in time to be of any help. We dont all live in major cities, although even in those due to congestion, it can take police a half hour or more to get to you..
The whole point of the right to bare arms is to prevent tyranny, but if you live in an open carry state, there is nothing forcing you to actually open carry. People have always had the right NOT to own a gun if they dont want to.
Last edited by ConeyGirl52; 06-06-2015 at 09:45 PM..
I've heard this a million times. Everyone has. I'm just not sure it's true. Many criminals who perform large public shootings have a death wish as well, and they often either die at the scene from a self-inflicted gunshot or a shootout with the police. In those cases, it doesn't seem important whether other citizens have guns.
Some but not the majority. I doubt the average bodega-robber has a death wish. I would like to increase that robber's risk that he'd be the victim of a lethal firefight.
Some but not the majority. I doubt the average bodega-robber has a death wish. I would like to increase that robber's wish that he'd be the victim of a lethal firefight.
I feel the opposite. I don't think any property is worth the life of a human. If somebody robs a Bodega and I'm inside, I'll be carrying. I won't draw on the person because of robbery. Let him take what he wants and be done with it. Nobody drops like a stone when you shoot them. There's always pushback. Innocent people, including yourself get shot. I'll get good identifying points and let the LE handle it. That's what insurance is for. To replace what he stole. Cost of doing business.
If he starts shooting, all bets are off. I shoot back. I practice a lot.
I feel the opposite. I don't think any property is worth the life of a human. If somebody robs a Bodega and I'm inside, I'll be carrying. I won't draw on the person because of robbery. Let him take what he wants and be done with it. Nobody drops like a stone when you shoot them. There's always pushback. Innocent people, including yourself get shot. I'll get good identifying points and let the LE handle it. That's what insurance is for. To replace what he stole. Cost of doing business.
If he starts shooting, all bets are off. I shoot back. I practice a lot.
I meant to type "risk" rather than "wish" in the final sentence of my post. While you may be right in the instant situation, there would be far fewer robberies if the robber had decent odds of winding up in potter's field after the robbery.
Would anyone have been surprised if another "good guy with a gun" saw this AR-15 guy as a threat (because, you must admit, that's how he wanted to appear for his stunt to succeed) and took him on in a crowded airport? The consequences then would just be "collateral damage," right?
What I find really funny about gun nuts is that they posture and boast that they have so much "freedom" because they have a gun, but really, they are just chained to an inanimate object and completely controlled by the laws surrounding its presence and use at all times. I have never met a group of people less "free" than that.
What I find funny about anti-gun nuts is that they don't know the difference between "having" freedom and being free to exercise your Constitutional Rights. Having a "Gun" does not make one free, but gives them the tools to stay free.
Do you seriously believe that Gun Owners are "chained" by existing Gun Laws? Its always been against the Law to Murder or commit Crimes with or without a gun, same as you have to abide by with no gun. Your "chained" to the same Laws, with no gun.
If you never saw a group of folks "less" free than that, look at yourselves. You have to take what any Criminal or Thug wants to dish out to you, while your waiting for the Police to respond and protect your butt. You couldn't even protect your family from a Home Invasion, or some nut case threatening them. How "Free" is that? Free to call 911 and wait? Free to make a News Story for me to read about the next day?
You like to posture and boast about "not needing" a Gun, but could not do crap "If" you ever needed one. None of the gunless people that get killed every day never thought they would need a gun either. They figure it always happens to others and would never happen to them. Good luck with that.
Having a Gun and not Needing it is better than Needing it and not Having it.
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