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Think that nifty desert technology was worth the price, over $105 Billion dollars total so far, and $2B more every year?
Particularly insulting that Israel recently asked for their aid to be provide in Euros and not U.S. dollars. Of course we agreed...
"In the spirit of Yom Kippur, the United States will not hold Israel to any agreements obligating them to accept Dollars as payment for their foreign aid. We will translate our obligations into Euros or whatever currency that best fits Israel's needs" Secretary Rice said in the Friday, Sept 21 announcement.
"We need to place our Israeli obligations at the top of our national priority list. Israel should not suffer any inconvenience due to currency fluctuations" said Rice before heading off to Camp David.
Particularly insulting that Israel recently asked for their aid to be provide in Euros and not U.S. dollars. Of course we agreed...
"In the spirit of Yom Kippur, the United States will not hold Israel to any agreements obligating them to accept Dollars as payment for their foreign aid. We will translate our obligations into Euros or whatever currency that best fits Israel's needs" Secretary Rice said in the Friday, Sept 21 announcement.
"We need to place our Israeli obligations at the top of our national priority list. Israel should not suffer any inconvenience due to currency fluctuations" said Rice before heading off to Camp David.
Why exactly are we "obligated" to give them these Billions of dollars again??
I've seen this posted on junk sites like weplanet, and Stormfront, but haven't seen a legitimate source, got anything better to link to than a advocacy site?
I don't see any reports of this in the Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC nor the New York Times. Not saying it isn't true, but I'd like to have a more credible link for that type of statement from Condi Rice.
I've seen this posted on junk sites like weplanet, and Stormfront, but haven't seen a legitimate source, got anything better to link to than a advocacy site?
I don't see any reports of this in the Washington Post, Washington Times, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC nor the New York Times. Not saying it isn't true, but I'd like to have a more credible link for that type of statement from Condi Rice.
No I looked and could not find anything. Maybe it is a joke.
The Gaza stuff seems more humane than bombing them into submission (covered in my prior posting). Feel free to disagree with me, but the comparison to Nazi Germany is downright ludicrous. Israel offered them a good deal, they turned it down and continue to kill civilians, no problem with retaliation in my view.
Starving a population of men, women, and children is a viable means of retaliation? Again, if we feel collective punishment is a viable option, then how are we any different that terrorist who also attack civilian populations?
I would like to note this bit from the AP today:
The Associated Press: Barak Says Israel May Go Back Into Gaza (broken link) [Barak] said 80 percent of Israelis now agreed with the idea of a Palestinian state and a withdrawal from the Palestinian-populated lands occupied by Israel in the 1967 Middle East war.
But are they ready to pay the price? Will Olmert's government offer at least what Barak himself did, as prime minister, some seven years ago — a near total-pullout and a division of sorts of the holy city of Jerusalem?
"Not these terms necessarily to the last detail," Barak said. The key, he said, was that "most Israelis now understand that two states for two nations is a compelling imperative."
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA
This discussion goes to the heart of why I disagree with many of you concerning future direction of foreign policy. A country like Israel is LOADED with innovative defense and detection technology, they are extremely advanced in weapon system and surveillance technology. I want them on our side, and our continuing relationship gives us another nice weapon development source (my #1 issue in all of politics). We get a lot of our weapon system technology, especially for desert ops, from joint developments with Israel, which is the major reason I continue to support our relationship. Powerful allies always come in handy, it is easier to maintain a relationship then to try and establish one when needed.
I will be more than happy to purchase you a copy of the Walt and Mearsheimer report if you like because it goes into great detail (over 100 pages of footnotes and references) as the asset-liability of Israel, particularly its military intelligence and hardware.
You claim we "get" a lot of weapon system technology from Israel and the truth is that we purchase a lot of technology from Israel. Much of the Israeli defense industry is subsidized by American foreign aid, so why does the US not keep this money and develop these technologies ourselves?
There are at least two full chapters that refute the quality and necessity of Israeli military hardware and intelligence,(let alone the strategic assets that are asserted) most sources being our own military and intelligence agencies, from the days of the Johnson administration to current.
In any case, our support for a nation that uses collective punishment and views it as a legitimate means of retaliation is below contempt and if perpetrated by any other US ally, would be cause for outrage. You know, I know it, and most people know it. Even the Israeli's know it and have so much as said so.
This discussion goes to the heart of why I disagree with many of you concerning future direction of foreign policy. A country like Israel is LOADED with innovative defense and detection technology, they are extremely advanced in weapon system and surveillance technology. I want them on our side, and our continuing relationship gives us another nice weapon development source (my #1 issue in all of politics). We get a lot of our weapon system technology, especially for desert ops, from joint developments with Israel, which is the major reason I continue to support our relationship. Powerful allies always come in handy, it is easier to maintain a relationship then to try and establish one when needed.
At what cost? How many billions a year do we give Israel? How many secrets stolen and sold to our enemies by Israel? How far into the middle east mess have we been dragged by Israel? How much of our foreign policy is dictated to us by Israel? How much of what Israel gains do they share with their 1 true benefactor? It is in fact a one sided relationship. Yes we have benefited to a small degree from Israels experience but at such a cost. WE have 0 credibility in the region because of our blatant blind eye to Israel. I don't hate them or wish ill will. I do however, see them for what they are. They are a burden, and an expensive one at that. Friend? LOL not by my definition.
Once in awhile you see a little glimpse of wisdom that makes you think that someday they could resolve their problems and move forward. More likely, this fellow won't celebrate many more birthdays:
This was an excellent piece and at least here we can agree. I wish we saw more of this kind of courage from more of the moderate Palestinians.
I came across this piece which I also believe to show great courage but from another perspective. It is a group of former IDF soldiers who are working towards peaceful alternatives and to explain to their own people that not everything on the news is as it seems.
One of the problems I have always noted though, is that it is far easier to see open discussions and self criticism on the Israeli side of the discussion.
Finding self criticisms about the approaches taken by the Palestinians or the Arabs in general towards their relationships with Israel is far more difficult.
Since you disagree with the cutoffs of supplies (which have now somewhat reopened) what other alternative would you have recommended to have rockets stopped being fired from Gaza at civilian Israeli areas? I know you would disagree with military actions, and self policing seems to be a void in Gaza. What actions should the Arabs have specifically taken to show that they can be trusted and decent neighbors and capable of preventing continuing shellings?
One of the problems I have always noted though, is that it is far easier to see open discussions and self criticism on the Israeli side of the discussion.
Finding self criticisms about the approaches taken by the Palestinians or the Arabs in general towards their relationships with Israel is far more difficult.
Since you disagree with the cutoffs of supplies (which have now somewhat reopened) what other alternative would you have recommended to have rockets stopped being fired from Gaza at civilian Israeli areas? I know you would disagree with military actions, and self policing seems to be a void in Gaza. What actions should the Arabs have specifically taken to show that they can be trusted and decent neighbors and capable of preventing continuing shellings?
To be honest, the only way to regain control of some semblance of civilization in the region would be the interjection of a UN peacekeeping force. Or at least some viable third party mediation that has some authority and teeth to dispense a more even handed policing and management of the area.
The US has attempted on several occasions to fill this role at some level but we are no longer an objective party to the situation. As unpopular as this may make me, I believe the Palestinian people also need some form of viable hope. Hope that they can manage their own lives and commit to their own self determination without being used as pawns by radical fundamentalist.
I remember reading a book when I was young about the mob in New York. In one point it was discussing why average citizens turned to the mob to "handle" things. At the time, NY city cops were ripe with corruption and for many average people, they saw the mob as a means of justice. Not because they liked the mob but because the alternative offered no better guarantees.
rocket attack on israel, retaliation is turning off the gas?? - an israel war crime in progress.??
palistenians tear down barriers to egypt? (they blew them up according to CNN)
sorry dont see the israli bad guy here. they gave up gaza, land for peace, palistine broke the deal. the palistenians are suffering. a good start is get the illegal terrorist dictators hamas out of palistine and stop shootin missiles at israel. if it were me i would repo gaza in a heartbeat. if israel is a war criminal, when we invaded iraq in retaliation for the 911 attack did that make us war criminals? i dont think so. when you blow up NYC or shoot missiles at israel, expect unpleasant experiences.
Israel is indeed sending a message to Hamas, the message is that it does not accept or recognize the democratically elected government of Hamas, just as many of the Muslims do not accept or recognize the state of Israel, so lets go back 1000 years again.
Many Muslims? Hello? Try again. Hamas Charter "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."
So would YOU recognize a government whose charter is to eliminate you without any other possible resolution being acceptable?
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