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I know of an elderly gentleman (78) who can hardly walk. Recently, he received a letter from Germany stating that he inherited debt from a relative who was a citizen of Germany and died. This elderly gentleman has been an American citizen for 55 years and hasn't seen this German relative for many years.
The letter stated that this debt could be disavowed if he goes to the German Consulate in Chicago and signs the form in the presence of a German notary. The problem is that this elderly man is not well enough to make a trip to Chicago which is over 300 miles. He called the consulate there but they offered no other options for him. Should a foreign country be allowed to make an elderly, disabled person accountable for debt of a citizen of another country only because he is not well enough to travel and sign these forms?
I think that the issue here is whether a US Court would enforce German law and that will depend on the terms of the Treaty between the two countries. It would be messy and defending the case would be expensive. However, Germany might choose to make it a test case and especially if they are under pressure by German opinion due to the US imposing disclosure requirements on German financial institutions.
I don't think the issues touch, and governments certainly know how to keep distinct issues that are distinct...when they want to. Those disclosure requirements have to do with international business--corporations and individuals who are actually operating across borders.
This individual has not done so--he has done no international business and has no foreign nation assets...nor do I think a US court accept that a US treaty obligates a US citizen to a foreign government without that citizen having obligated himself by his own actions under the treaty.
The U.S. certainly does go after foreign nationals for federal tax on income NOT earned in the U.S. and every one who has spent the allowable 'assumed visitor visa' time or somewhat less (according to a formula) over a period of years in the U.S. is aware that:
Your simple presence called "substantial presence" in the U.S. for a prescribed period of days that equate to far less than the allowed visa time of 180 days per year entitles by treaty agreement the U.S. to require them to pay income tax on ALL income earned regardless of source. The onus is on the individual to provide proof of a closer connection to a foreign country, upon demand, by providing the following:
Proof of citizenship in foreign country.
Proof of bank accounts in the form of current statements in the foreign country.
Proof of income taxes filed " " " .
Proof of property owned/leased in a foreign country in the form of lease agreement or property tax receipts.
Copies of current utility bills paid on property owned in foreign country
Proof of origins of income in the form of statements of earnings from all sources.
Copies of titles of cars and insurance paid on cars wherever titled have even been requested upon occasion.
Failure to comply and the foreign country with whom the U.S. has these treaties in force and effect is compelled to enforce collections of all taxes deemed applicable by the IRS.
The IRS certainly do go after foreign entities for taxes on income earned from sources other than U.S. should they spend any amount of "allowed" time in the U.S. over the course of successive years.
Finally: It has everything to do with this case, if as it is being suggested, this is TREATY stipulated.
None of which applies to this case with this elderly gentleman, so it is a distinctively different matter. You think lawyers won't notice that distinctive difference?
I don't think the issues touch, and governments certainly know how to keep distinct issues that are distinct...when they want to. Those disclosure requirements have to do with international business--corporations and individuals who are actually operating across borders.
This individual has not done so--he has done no international business and has no foreign nation assets...nor do I think a US court accept that a US treaty obligates a US citizen to a foreign government without that citizen having obligated himself by his own actions under the treaty.
I have done a bit of 'googling' on this.
From what I can see, judgements of foreign courts are enforceable in the USA based on certain conditions.
"U.S. courts usually do not examine if the claim is reasonable if the above requirements are met. It is only necessary that the American court thinks that the German court had jurisdiction over the dispute."
and
"The Defendant usually receives 30 days to raise objections against the enforcement of the German judgment. If there are no timely objections, the U.S. court can recognized the German judgment as enforceable, which can be enforced the same way as an American judgment would be enforced without having to notify the former Defendant."
I am not pretending to be a lawyer but if Germany chooses to try to enforce the judgement in the USA then this elderly gentleman will have to defend himself or concede the case which all costs dollars.
"U.S. courts usually do not examine if the claim is reasonable if the above requirements are met. It is only necessary that the American court thinks that the German court had jurisdiction over the dispute."
and
"The Defendant usually receives 30 days to raise objections against the enforcement of the German judgment. If there are no timely objections, the U.S. court can recognized the German judgment as enforceable, which can be enforced the same way as an American judgment would be enforced without having to notify the former Defendant."
I am not pretending to be a lawyer but if Germany chooses to try to enforce the judgement in the USA then this elderly gentleman will have to defend himself or concede the case which all costs dollars.
I have always been talking about the actions of the American court, so I'm presuming the Defendant is mounting a court defense.
From that link: "Additionally, the American court will examine if there was a sufficient relationship between the Defendant and the German court." I would still be very surprised if in a case like this, with the American citizen having had no volitional relationship with any German entity, that the American court would find for the German judgment.
Still not sure how legit this is, but I would strongly suggest to the gentleman, to NOT go to the German Consulate in Chicago as the building/land might be considered the Property of Germany and they might arrest him.
None of which applies to this case with this elderly gentleman, so it is a distinctively different matter. You think lawyers won't notice that distinctive difference?
It does if there is a treaty agreement respecting inheritance of financial liabilities exists between the two countries as has been suggested in earlier posts.
I had posted this only as an example of how the U.S. requires through treaty agreements, such things as payment of taxes on income earned from foreign sources by foreign entities, which you stated very succinctly, DOES NOT OCCUR. You are wrong.
AND yes; I would expect lawyers to know the difference. Which post was it that stated the elderly party in question consulted with a lawyer specializing in treaty agreements vis-Ã -vis inheritance of financial liability rules between Germany and the U.S.? I must have missed reading that one.
All I've read is that the people he has contacted have referred to requiring the signing of a quit claim to negate his liability due to a treaty agreement.
"U.S. courts usually do not examine if the claim is reasonable if the above requirements are met. It is only necessary that the American court thinks that the German court had jurisdiction over the dispute."
and
"The Defendant usually receives 30 days to raise objections against the enforcement of the German judgment. If there are no timely objections, the U.S. court can recognized the German judgment as enforceable, which can be enforced the same way as an American judgment would be enforced without having to notify the former Defendant."
I am not pretending to be a lawyer but if Germany chooses to try to enforce the judgement in the USA then this elderly gentleman will have to defend himself or concede the case which all costs dollars.
Thank you for finding this! I suspect that if the document is not signed by the US citizen at a German consulate to explicitly deny the debt, the German court will, and can, easily put a lien on the assets of the US citizen.
Thank you for finding this! I suspect that if the document is not signed by the US citizen at a German consulate to explicitly deny the debt, the German court will, and can, easily put a lien on the assets of the US citizen.
There must be a way to deal with this situation short of having the gentleman go to Chicago. Has anyone contacted the German consulate for advice?
It is just an opinion but attending the actual consulate to simply sign a quit claim seems usurious and indicative of mistrust in the U.S. notary public system.
I would think that is the area a contesting of procedure should focus on. Should this actually be a treaty agreement issue, wouldn't it serve both countries interests to streamline this and keep it simple to allow either country's method of witnessed signatures by certified agents being accepted.
Surely any treaty agreement requires some element of trust without unwarranted, undue hardship being imposed or allowed upon any country's citizens subject to the treaty's stipulations.
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