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Thank you for finding this! I suspect that if the document is not signed by the US citizen at a German consulate to explicitly deny the debt, the German court will, and can, easily put a lien on the assets of the US citizen.
If I were him I'd tell Germany to come get it.
By US law all retirement income (pensions, IRAs, 401Ks) are protected and no liens can be put on these type of assets or income derived from them. The only exception is debt owed to the US gov't (like taxes). They (Germany) can't even take his house (if he has one).
If Germany gets pushy about it, let the German courts and the US courts fight it out amongst themselves.
He should contact his senator or representative now to end this mess.
There must be a way to deal with this situation short of having the gentleman go to Chicago. Has anyone contacted the German consulate for advice?
Yes. He called the consulate and told them he was elderly, ill, and disabled. The only alternative they offered was for him to go to an honorary notar in Mpls. However, going to Mpls presents the same issues: long distance (at least 6 hours of driving round-trip), needing a driver as this gentleman cannot drive (someone would have to get time off of work to be available), physical difficulty, cost for trip and paying the notar, etc.... Germany does not accept any of our notaries, only their own, along with their fees.
I know that there are laws that stopped abuse through the postal system whereby solicitors would consider a non-response as consent to buy the product/membership. IMO, this undue hardship process that a foreign country imposes on our citizens (especially our elderly citizens), should also require that a no response means not accepting rather than as accepting.
Honestly, I can hardly believe such a thing could happen until this happened. I have been trying to help this man so I have learned a lot about this through this process and the more I learn, the angrier I get!
It is just an opinion but attending the actual consulate to simply sign a quit claim seems usurious and indicative of mistrust in the U.S. notary public system.
I would think that is the area a contesting of procedure should focus on. Should this actually be a treaty agreement issue, wouldn't it serve both countries interests to streamline this and keep it simple to allow either country's method of witnessed signatures by certified agents being accepted.
Surely any treaty agreement requires some element of trust without unwarranted, undue hardship being imposed or allowed upon any country's citizens subject to the treaty's stipulations.
You are spot on! Germany will not recognize our notaries whatsoever. However, I am betting that Germany would recognize our notaries if their signature are required to collect debts from our citizens.
By US law all retirement income (pensions, IRAs, 401Ks) are protected and no liens can be put on these type of assets or income derived from them. The only exception is debt owed to the US gov't (like taxes). They (Germany) can't even take his house (if he has one).
If Germany gets pushy about it, let the German courts and the US courts fight it out amongst themselves.
He should contact his senator or representative now to end this mess.
I will definitely be contacting our Senators about this issue. Right now, this US gentleman is afraid that if he doesn't take care of this, Germany will put a lien on his assets and property. He is afraid that after he dies, his sons will be left a mess in trying to settle his estate.
You are spot on! Germany will not recognize our notaries whatsoever. However, I am betting that Germany would recognize our notaries if their signature are required to collect debts from our citizens.
I suspect this is a common problem. Just as lawyers, accountants, etc. cannot practice in other countries or even states without being duly licensed by the country or state. I wonder if the US would recognize a German notary's signature on a US legal document?
As ever, when a citizen runs into the 'system', it is always the citizen who is put at a disadvantage. In this case, the disadvantage is exacerbated by the citizen being elderly and disabled.
But Germany doesn't care. Under German law, this US citizen is liable for inherited debts unless he renounces - also under German law - the inheritance. That is their system and they are not going to change it for one individual. And the fact that he is a US citizen and not a German one does not change his legal liability under German law.
Of course, if there were assets in the estate rather than debts, he would also stand to inherit those assets. So the 'system' isn't entirely unfair.
Generally, the only way to introduce flexibility into the 'system' is to bring political pressure. So contacting your Congressman/woman or Senator is absolutely the right way to go.
I would tell the krauts to go pound sand. Both my parents are from there and there is no way I would pay off the debt of relative. Their debt, their problem. And if they're dead, it's not my problem.
I would tell the krauts to go pound sand. Both my parents are from there and there is no way I would pay off the debt of relative. Their debt, their problem. And if they're dead, it's not my problem.
Unfortunately, Germany might make it your problem by having a US court enforce the debt.
No doubt you would also tell them to 'pound sand' if there was an inheritance coming your way rather than a debt.
Unfortunately, Germany might make it your problem by having a US court enforce the debt.
No doubt you would also tell them to 'pound sand' if there was an inheritance coming your way rather than a debt.
BINGO!
This seems to be an issue of reciprocal treaty agreements between the member countries honouring all but that part of the process that involves individual hardship.
The actual requirement of the individual signing a document stating he relinquishes all rights to any inheritance and therefore also abrogates any responsibility for debts incurred should be as easy as sitting in a lawyers or notary public's office to accomplish. German law and procedures notwithstanding; what is it they are attempting to achieve that will actually bear fruit?
Some German law probably states that in the case of any inheritance being transferred; prior to said transference of assets, any debts/liens incurred left outstanding must be satisfied. The option therefore is to attach the estate and all it's inheritors.
Surely some German bean counter is able to assess the estate as being in deficit so there is nothing to attach and some other agent should be equally adept at ascertaining the issue of this gentleman signing a quit claim to said estate being of little to no value in recovery of debt import.
Once some intelligent logic is applied in terms of to what extent the German debt holders are going to benefit from this bureaucratic exercise, I'm sure sanity will prevail, but until that happens, it remains incumbent upon this elderly gentleman to find an agent with recognized authority to make it very difficult for the courts involved to ignore the cost-versus-reward of this stupidly unproductive and unduly punitive exercise. .
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