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I think a done wil be deal with Frage and the Brexit party, and I am confident that the current mess can be cleared up once the rebel MP's are sent packing along with Corbyn and Labour.
Boris is in a good position to do well against Corbyn and to form an effective majority Government without the rebels that have been causing all the problems.
There were about twenty five rebels, however with Anna Soubry and two other Tories having gone to Change UK and the current expulsions, resignations and those crossng the floor of the house to other parties, the Conservatives will be in much better shape.
What is going on now, is ridiculous, you can't have parliament dictating like this without consulting the people.
When Brexit was sold to the people as an opportunity to make a much better deal, how can you conclude the “will of the people” mandates no deal being struck?
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"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey
When Brexit was sold to the people as an opportunity to make a much better deal, how can you conclude the “will of the people” mandates no deal being struck?
I am concluding that a General Election take place.
A general election would allow each political party to set out it's policies in a manifesto.
Labour may put a second referendum in their manifesto, as might the Liberal Democrats, the Conservatives might have a policy of negotiating but leaving anyway if no deal can be negotiated.
It would then be up to the British people to decide (including myself) in a democratic election.
In terms of the inital referendum, the question asked was do you wish to remain in the European union or do you wish to leave the European union, there was no mention of deals or no deals.
The British people were also subjected to project fear, which was a load of nonsense designed to scare them in to voting 'remain', and which never materialised.
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"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
I have a feeling this "consulting the people" does not extend to holding a new referendum, am I much off?
A new referendum will be incorportated in to some parties manifestos at a General Election.
An election is now needed because we have a minority Government, in a hung parliament situation and this can't go on.
In terms of a referendum that depends on who gains power in a possible snap election.
This would help sort out the situation in a democratic way, which is through the ballot box, as parliament answers to the people, it does not dictate to them, and it is the Government that has negotiating powers and not Parliament. Parliament can not negotiate with the EU, only a Government can do that.
What is going on now, is ridiculous, you can't have parliament dictating like this without consulting the people.
I would imagine most MPs heard from their constituents and weighed that in casting their vote. A number of them discussed the consultations they had had with constituents.
You are clearly on the leave side, but the British public seems pretty evenly divided on the question of Brexit and clearly many people do support the actions Parliament took to try and block no deal.
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"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude
I would imagine most MPs heard from their constituents and weighed that in casting their vote. A number of them discussed the consultations they had had with constituents.
You are clearly on the leave side, but the British public seems pretty evenly divided on the question of Brexit and clearly many people do support the actions Parliament took to try and block no deal.
Many people also don't support the actions of Parliament, and as already pointed out parliament answers to the people and the ballot box, and the only way an MP can be truly sure of how his constituents feel is through the ballot box.
Some MP's are voting trying to frustrate Brexit despite the fact that something like 70% of their constiuents voted for Brexit, and I expect some MP's will lose their seats in snap election. So it's little wonder that many don't want an election. As for Labour, it's already been damaged by an anti-semitism scandal, seen it's lowest poll rating sibce the party was founded and has one of the most unpopular party leader ever in Corbyn, so they have more reasons than most not to want an election.
I don’t know why this is considered a bargaining chip. It just seems like common sense:
Quote:
Boris Johnson has told Brussels he wants to rewrite the defence pledges in the current Brexit deal, sparking EU fears that he will use the security of European citizens as a bargaining chip.
A demand for a looser level of cooperation was made by Johnson’s EU envoy, David Frost, during the recent talks in Brussels with the European commission negotiators.
Quote:
The current political declaration contains a commitment to “close cooperation in union-led crisis management missions and operations, both civilian and military”.
It is understood the British government is insisting that any future deal must contain structures that will maintain British sovereign control over how its defence assets are used. It is argued that the current political declaration does not go far enough in protecting its interests.
A new referendum will be incorportated in to some parties manifestos at a General Election.
An election is now needed because we have a minority Government, in a hung parliament situation and this can't go on.
In terms of a referendum that depends on who gains power in a possible snap election.
This would help sort out the situation in a democratic way, which is through the ballot box, as parliament answers to the people, it does not dictate to them, and it is the Government that has negotiating powers and not Parliament. Parliament can not negotiate with the EU, only a Government can do that.
Ah. So if this Parliament were to pass legislation that called for a referendum, that would be way out of line?
British Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Thursday said he would rather be "dead in a ditch" than ask the EU for an extension to the October 31 Brexit deadline. When pressed on if he would resign rather than ask for an extension, the leader avoided the question, reiterating his call to "get Brexit done".
He made the comments during an address as he visited a police training centre in West Yorkshire.
The speech was the kick-off to what is in effect an election campaign.
Johnson referred to MPs' defiant moves on Wednesday as a vote "to scupper the government's negotiating power".
Of course Johnson is right, the opposition is opposing Brexit and as a result, were quite happy to undermine the Prime Minister's negotiating position, because they are actually the ones who want no deal, as that would mean Brexit was achieved. They are obviously opposed that.
And it appears that if Johnson is still in power on October 31 that he is likely to use his vote on the EU Counsel to veto any extension request, and that will only be necessary if someone else somehow submits the extension request.
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"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 5 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,189 posts, read 13,477,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
Ah. So if this Parliament were to pass legislation that called for a referendum, that would be way out of line?
Parliament could pass such legislation, however it would risk the anger of the 17.4 million who voted to leave in the first place and would take 22 weeks to enact according to the Electoral Commission.
Furthermore all the usual suspects would come out campaigning including Farage.
The problem with a second referendum at this point is the need for an urgent General Election, and any legislation can be scrapped after a general election.
There is no way Parliament can put off a general election for more than 5 months, and Labour are already looking hypocritical having spoent the last two years callking for a General Election, and this could see them punished by voters in any election, and they are already very unpopular at the current time, having acheived their lowest polling figure in their party history earlier this year.
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