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No. To have equal (the same) legal rights and equal (the same) social opportunities. Not to be equal to men. Men and women are different in their biology, emotions and personal needs. This can never be equal (the same).
I'm not sure what special treatment you are talking about.
Couple examples: female politicians often allow criticism of their male opponent for beating up on them. Basically, the old "you have to be gentler to the little lady" argument. Also, women have gained equal access to the workplace but often seem to think they deserve special treatment related to their gender.
Maternity leave is probably the best example of this. By your definition, the principles of feminism were met when a woman was hired. Maternity leave goes well beyond that threshold and men never had a comparable perk.
I'm not attacking women. But I do think that women don't want to give up the few perks they did enjoy due to being considered the weaker sex.
Couple examples: female politicians often allow criticism of their male opponent for beating up on them. Basically, the old "you have to be gentler to the little lady" argument. Also, women have gained equal access to the workplace but often seem to think they deserve special treatment related to their gender.
Maternity leave is probably the best example of this. By your definition, the principles of feminism were met when a woman was hired. Maternity leave goes well beyond that threshold and men never had a comparable perk.
I'm not attacking women. But I do think that women don't want to give up the few perks they did enjoy due to being considered the weaker sex.
I'm with you on the maternity leave. That is a personal choice. Neither government nor employers should pay for the way people decide to live their lives.
Dh once hired a woman who knew she was pregnant when she applied for the job.
Surprise, surprise.
She got 6 weeks paid time off when the baby came, She was not ready to come back to work, so she took an 6 months, unpaid.
Then they let her worked at home for 6 months. All the while they were paying a temp to do the front office. Then she filed a discrimination complaint with the EEOC.
Don't know what the lawyers cost. But it cost her the job. She really thought they would put her back to work and fire the other woman who had been on the job longer than she was there.
I have. He does way more than he used to. But socially, due to him being reared in a society where housework and chores are "women's" work, he is not apt to just jump in and do what needs to be done. I have to re-train him to do it and it is another of my jobs and can be a source of stress and a distraction from my career. This is the case for a lot of my female associates as well. When we look to "renegotiate" many men view it as being a b**ch or of trying to "control" them or that we are "nagging."
FWIW none of my brothers were raised to believe that there is a such thing as "women's work" as our mom was primarily a single mother and they did all the household chores when we were kids and my older brother in particular along with myself were involved in the childcare of our younger brothers who are 10-11 younger than I am. However, all of them today do not do any house work. They think that their women should do it even though all of them have women who work. IMO it is more of a male issue. I also am hesitant to divorce my husband just based on him not being active in household chores. Too many people today IMO divorce over issues that aren't vital to the relationship. My renegotiation with my husband was specific to him - I no longer do any chores for him (laundry, grocery shopping, cooking, etc unless I'm making a big batch of something). I also don't do my kid's laundry either or clean up after them and I make sure they do chores to keep our house clean. But other things that he could do and that they need done by an adult, I just have to do because I don't want them to lack in the support they need.
But this issue is one that does need to be talked about by feminist IMO. More men actually are involved in housework and childcare versus the 1980s in particular. So evidently the activism and speaking about this issue by feminists is something that has worked. Keeping it in the forefront IMO is important as I do believe that women accepting that they will shoulder the brunt of household chores/childcare is the primary reason why the gender pay gap exists. Also women thinking they shouldn't be too "b*tchy" at work by speaking up or negotiating more firmly their salary are issues that women need to work on.
No sympathy from me.
You either know yourself or you don't. You bring that into a relationship and hold yourself and your partner accountable.
If you can't do that you reap what you sow.
Feminist rubbish to the core. If my partner EVER disrespects me by not fulfilling her agreement which results in negative emotions/stress then it's addressed and rectified before we move on.
This is what I HATE about "feminism": the idea that the man must secure the identity of the woman because she won't fight for herself.
Drives me up a wall.
Last edited by No_Recess; 10-11-2016 at 04:13 PM..
Couple examples: female politicians often allow criticism of their male opponent for beating up on them. Basically, the old "you have to be gentler to the little lady" argument. Also, women have gained equal access to the workplace but often seem to think they deserve special treatment related to their gender.
I don't expect special treatment. I expect equal opportunity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle
Maternity leave is probably the best example of this. By your definition, the principles of feminism were met when a woman was hired. Maternity leave goes well beyond that threshold and men never had a comparable perk.
where I live, its called "Parental leave". Parents are eligible for leave, up to 12 months (part paid).
One of my friends recently took 2 months leave, as his partner had taken the previous 10 months. She earns more than him, so it made financial sense. Plus it gave excellent contact time between him & his son.
Feminism, benefits men, too
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle
I'm not attacking women. But I do think that women don't want to give up the few perks they did enjoy due to being considered the weaker sex.
Having children, is not a perk. I expect that if/when I do, the years and effort I've put into my work life, don't automatically disappear.
You either know yourself or you don't. You bring that into a relationship and hold yourself and your partner accountable.
If you can't do that you reap what you sow.
Feminist rubbish to the core. If my partner EVER disrespects me by not fulfilling her agreement which results in negative emotions/stress then it's addressed and rectified before we move on.
This is what I HATE about "feminism": the idea that the man must secure the identity of the woman because she won't fight for herself.
Drives me up a wall.
I didn't ask for any sympathy from you...
Just letting you know that this is a social issue and feminists do discuss and seek to rectify social situations that put women at a disadvantage. The household and childcare responsibilities being solely or majority put onto females is a disadvantage for women who are looking to enter higher positions at work in the corporate world especially.
FWIW I don't need your sympathy either. Like I stated, I don't do anything for my husband anymore in regards to chores (and haven't for about 10 years) and I've accepted and am fine with the fact that this point in time in my life, I am going to focus on my kids and our family life. Kids are only kids for so long. I am also lucky in that I work for a female director who has kids the same age as mine. Funny, but she has the same issue with her husband as I do lol. So my boss is very accommodating for me in my family situation and I also make sure I give her a lot of support at work. I work for a large organization and when I am ready, I will move up my career path. I also already make very good money.
But will note that I did state earlier that my husband actually did do chores when we were dating and when we were initially co-habiting and earlier in our marriage. He got lazy after our first child was born, which is the case for many men and couples in general. Most women are not apt to break up their family just because their husband decides to be lazy. I do think that it can cause issues in a marriage and I do feel that many women have divorced their husbands due to this issue. However, my husband is a decent guy in all other aspects of our relationship and so I decided to just set boundaries about what I won't do for him and everything else I do not discuss with him (unless he brings up any issue related to chores I do) the household work. I do bring up the childcare/child involvement thing though as I do expect and I do make him do more with the kids than he normally would. Luckily over the years, as the kids got older, he started to do more with them by himself. But he still has his loss of common sense moments, especially with our youngest child as he thinks she should be able to do things by herself that I would normally do or help her do when I am not at home.
On the bold, that is rather ridiculous IMO. Women actually have "fought" for our rights, which is why we now have them legally compared to the past. In regards to social issues though, the "fight" is to keep these issues in the forefront. The more studies done and discussions held on a subject, the more likely that things will equalize in regards to specific social situations. I do feel though that women need to speak up more for what they want and that as a whole, we are much more likely to remain silent on issues. FWIW IRL I am frequently thought to be a woman who people are "afraid" of, even other women because I do not mince words and I expect everyone to take responsibility for themselves and I am not shy about being this way in my life. My own husband has said I am not "soft" enough in many ways (mostly IMO in doing things he feels I should do just because he wants me to do it). I look at every situation and take it how I see it and I make definitive decisions and take direct actions. Many women IMO are not direct enough and that is an issue I also feel and I do see feminist speak about in regards to women. This is especially so in regards to career and pay. Women need to value themselves more and ask for what they are worth in the workplace. Women need to take definitive stands at home, something that I also had to do. If we/you are going to stay in a relationship with a spouse who is lazy at home, you need to deal with it and accept it, like I have and if needed get additional support. I do pay a housekeeper for instance to help with my chores. The husband b**ches about it, but I just tell him if he could do those things on a consistent basis, I'd not pay for the service. I also feel women apologize too much for stuff that does not need an apology for. Women also put themselves down unnecessarily saying they are not "good" at things and emotionally beating themselves up. All of the above are social issues that women need to work on IMO in regards to social opportunities. Speaking about these amongst women is not asking men to do anything for us.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 10-12-2016 at 06:53 AM..
Couple examples: female politicians often allow criticism of their male opponent for beating up on them. Basically, the old "you have to be gentler to the little lady" argument. Also, women have gained equal access to the workplace but often seem to think they deserve special treatment related to their gender.
Maternity leave is probably the best example of this. By your definition, the principles of feminism were met when a woman was hired. Maternity leave goes well beyond that threshold and men never had a comparable perk.
I'm not attacking women. But I do think that women don't want to give up the few perks they did enjoy due to being considered the weaker sex.
On the politician thing, I don't see that occurring to any wide degree. If anything, feminist speak of how women politicians are ridiculed for things men in politics are not ridiculed for. The current presidential election is proof of this since Bill Clinton's infidelity's are brought up often. HRC was not an adulteress yet she is blamed for her husband's philandering. Also, the articles about what she is wearing. I have never seen the fashion of a male politician discussed as it is irrelevant. Even the whole email thing is odd to me considering the Bush Administration's email issue. But that one IMO is more of a political party thing.
On Materinity leave, I do feel like men should get a Paternity leave as well. FWIW many companies/organizations now do offer Paternity leave. Men bonding with their children is important IMO and ironically it is women and feminist who actually support paternity leave contrary to what you may think. One also has to remember though that for Maternity leave, women actually do have a medical issue/healing in regards to giving birth in most cases. But IMO it is a huge transition for a couple to have a child and the father not only needs to bond with the child, but also may be needed to help the mother due to her having gone through labor and birth and him being needed to help with her recovery.
Agreed feminism doesn't make sense, all it's accomplished lately is caused the birth-rate to plummet (birth-rate would probably be negative if it weren't for immigration). It's also chock full of hypocrisy/double standards, institutionalized bias/hatred against men, and billions of tax dollars wasted on various programs.
The ACTUAL goals of feminism (female vote, female workforce, equal treatment, etc) where achieved decades ago. Nowadays it's largely a movement of various blue-haired leftists who hate men and just something else for the left to complain about. Even though these "tolerant" people have a seething hatred of men/boys and all things male, they will NEVER admit to it.
Ironically, a lot of the most vocal feminists today are usually quite wealthy, pampered, or high upper-middle class .... while women who ACTUALLY have it hard in life/are poor rarely identify as feminist.
Couple examples: female politicians often allow criticism of their male opponent for beating up on them. Basically, the old "you have to be gentler to the little lady" argument. Also, women have gained equal access to the workplace but often seem to think they deserve special treatment related to their gender.
Maternity leave is probably the best example of this. By your definition, the principles of feminism were met when a woman was hired. Maternity leave goes well beyond that threshold and men never had a comparable perk.
I'm not attacking women. But I do think that women don't want to give up the few perks they did enjoy due to being considered the weaker sex.
Your vague in your female politicians do X. Who specifically said what. And they allow criticism. How are any politicians suppose to dis allow criticism. Its politics and politicians are not feminism, or a feminist group or a feminist movement. You are talking about an individual.
People are given by law allowance to take time off from their jobs for medical reasons without being fired. Having a child is a medical reason same as surgery, cancer, mental illness. It is up to individual employers to grant any paid maternity leave. None of my employers provided paid maternity leave. I had to use accrued personal and sick leave and take unpaid leave for the 6 weeks I took off following the birth of my kids. As well men do have a comparable perk. Some employers provide paid paternity leave as well.
Agreed feminism doesn't make sense, all it's accomplished lately is caused the birth-rate to plummet (birth-rate would probably be negative if it weren't for immigration).
Go on. Explain how feminism has plummeted the birth rate. How does infertility and economy (recession and high unemployment) factor into the decline. How does the age of women giving birth factor, the baby boom 1946-1965. How is the decline a bad thing. Actually the decline in births among immigrants is much higher than the decline among US citizens.
Quote:
It's also chock full of hypocrisy/double standards, institutionalized bias/hatred against men, and billions of tax dollars wasted on various programs.
Please elaborate.
Quote:
The ACTUAL goals of feminism (female vote, female workforce, equal treatment, etc) where achieved decades ago. Nowadays it's largely a movement of various blue-haired leftists who hate men and just something else for the left to complain about. Even though these "tolerant" people have a seething hatred of men/boys and all things male, they will NEVER admit to it.
who are these blue haired leftist and what organization do they head?
Quote:
Ironically, a lot of the most vocal feminists today are usually quite wealthy, pampered, or high upper-middle class .... while women who ACTUALLY have it hard in life/are poor rarely identify as feminist.
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