"I don't support gay marriage"

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by njquestions

The ones where gay marriage kept failing at the ballot box?

Ignoring what I said is one thing. Referring to things I did not say however is a whole new level of dishonesty from you. As I said my points in the first post are there for anyone who wants to go back and see that your ignoring them does not stop them existing.

Originally Posted by njquestions

Always hilarious how liberals

Ah dodging what I said by attacking generic labels again I see. Your entire MO is to ignore what any individual says and launch some generic attack on some generic label instead. Who you believe this tactic is fooling, other than perhaps your own self, I genuinely do not know.

Originally Posted by njquestions

can't see any link between the progression from normalization of homosexuality to transsexuality and now to pedophilia. It's a mystery!

Yes it is a mystery to YOU how I "can't see" something you have not actually shown. Funny that. Maybe if you show it I would see it. However I called it when I said "you have NO actual evidence that legalizing and normalizing pedophilia is an actual agenda by any statistically significant number of people." because once again you have not offered any. Go me.

I do not care what "every day liberals" think or say. I care what *I* say. And you can either address what *I* say or you can keep dodging by attacking some generic group that is not me instead. But as I said, this is A) not honest and B) not fooling anyone.

Originally Posted by njquestions

Here's the regurgitated argument that gay marriage only affects you if you are forced to marry a gay.

Yea funny how if you keep asking what 2+2 is.... people will keep "regurgitating" that answer 4. And funny how if you keep saying gay marriage was "forced on you" people will keep pointing out that it hasn't been and it in fact does not appear to be affecting you in any way you have managed to articular. Go figure.

Originally Posted by njquestions

Here's the same rote denial of normalization of pedophilia

So as I predicted then, you can not actually offer any "actual evidence that legalizing and normalizing pedophilia is an actual agenda by any statistically significant number of people." then huh? Amazing how I keep getting these little predictions right.

Originally Posted by njquestions

Here's fierce denial of any equivalence between homosexuality and pedophilia because currently people are against pedophilia.

But I did not base the lack of equivalence on the fact that "currently people are against pedophilia. At all. Anywhere. Ever. So what you have done here, blatantly, transparently, and in black and white for all to see........ is ENTIRELY ignore the argument I DID make......... then ENTIRELY invent an argument I did not make....... and shoved it in my mouth.

There it is folks. Complete, transparent, blatant, obvious dishonesty, straw man and outright lies. For all to see. Right there in black and white. Undeniable. Unavoidable. Totally clear.

And just to top it off...........

Originally Posted by njquestions

...and then he picked door two, where he said sex with persons who cannot provide consent is fine.

..........the same again. Totally, completely and utterly NOT what I said.

So in one post you have given me:

• THREE blatant examples of you simply inventing words I did not say.
• TWO blatant examples of you dodging what I said by ignoring me and attacking some generic label instead, and
• ONE blatant example of me asking you directly for evidence of a claim and you simply not being able to provide it.
• ONE blatant example of me asking you for moral or ethical arguments against homosexuality without you providing one.

You couldn't make this stuff up folks. Game. Set. Match.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by dog8food

Oh and your earlier argument that "God created homosexuals" is actually true, just like he created Satan. He didn't however, create them to sin.

You must be talking about a different god to the one most theists I talk to believe in then. Because they believe in a god that knows EVERYTHING, including the future. So whatever the god in question did, it knew the outcomes, the design, the plan, the results all before hand.

So THEIR god, if not the one you are referring to, very much did create sinners to sin.

Thankfully, like a married bachelor, an all knowing all powerful god contradicts itself and simply CAN not exist by definition, so your idea of this god is likely more accurate than theirs........... even assuming a god actually exists. Which I do not given the not just slight but COMPLETE lack of evidence for it.

However this is a thread about homosexuality, and just about every theist I talk to thinks their god is rational. So when their reasoning is just that homosexuality is wrong because god thinks it is wrong..... I point out that IF their god IS rational.... then they should be able to discern or explore the RATIONAL reasons as to why their god would be against homosexuality.

This leaves them floundering however because the simple fact is that no one, least of all anyone ranting on this thread, has provided a single moral or ethical arguments against homosexuality, its expression, or its framing in marriage.

Bully for them I guess.

[DonJuanQuixote]

Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo

This leaves them floundering however because the simple fact is that no one, least of all anyone ranting on this thread, has provided a single moral or ethical arguments against homosexuality, its expression, or its framing in marriage.

Bully for them I guess.

Or you simply turned a blind eye to the arguments. Common.

Anyway, if you don't believe in any 'god' you sure have an easy time "rationalizing" him away. It's ridiculous though. You simply cannot argue spiritual things with your earthly arguments. Just as science can't. You just can't. And that's what drives you nuts.

[TriMT7]

Originally Posted by dog8food

You mean REgressive. Acceptance of homosexual unions goes back to Sodom and Gomorrah as far as we know.

Just goes to show you don't know much about Sodom and Gomorrah.

By the way, you DO know what happened to the protagonists of that story - the ones god chose to SAVE? Remember them? Lot and his family?

A few passages later after leaving the sinners and sodomites to die.... Lot ends up having DRUNKEN INCEST THREESOME with his horny daughters.

Let that sink in. God saved the incest family. Surely Sodom and Gomorrah must be about sexual morality then, and not a morality tale about how to treat strangers and hospitality.


Yeah. A real morality tale, that one. God must not have known what was gonna happen, huh? Not like he's an omnipotent being or anything.

[DonJuanQuixote]

Originally Posted by TriMT7

Just goes to show you don't know much about Sodom and Gomorrah.

By the way, you DO know what happened to the protagonists of that story - the ones god chose to SAVE? Remember them? Lot and his family?

A few passages later after leaving the sinners and sodomites to die.... Lot ends up having DRUNKEN INCEST THREESOME with his horny daughters.

Let that sink in. God saved the incest family. Surely Sodom and Gomorrah must be about sexual morality then, and not a morality tale about how to treat strangers and hospitality.


Yeah. A real morality tale, that one. God must not have known what was gonna happen, huh? Not like he's an omnipotent being or anything.

You don't get the larger context. Everyone in the Bible was a sinner apart from Jesus. You, I, EVERYBODY. People have a hard time accepting that God chose some sinners over others.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by dog8food

Or you simply turned a blind eye to the arguments. Common.

Not to my knowledge no, I have long challenged people for those arguments and none have been forthcoming. But I remain open minded to the possibility I simply MISSED one or two somewhere. Which was certainly not my intention as you imply.

But certainly, to my knowledge, I have not seen (let alone then ignored) a single arguments against the morality or ethics of homosexuality, it's expression, or it's framing in marriage.

If you are aware of any arguments I have missed, by all means enlighten me so I can stop being wrong.

Originally Posted by dog8food

Anyway, if you don't believe in any 'god' you sure have an easy time "rationalizing" him away.

Erm I think you have that slightly wrong. If you do not believe there is a god there then is nothing TO "rationalize away".

Originally Posted by dog8food

It's ridiculous though. You simply cannot argue spiritual things with your earthly arguments. Just as science can't. You just can't. And that's what drives you nuts.

Nice of you to impute emotions and mental states to me that I know I do not actually hold. Not only is nothing of the sort "driving me nuts", I am in fact quite happy and sanguine about the fact that there is nothing to morally or ethically indict homosexuality.

You attempt to distinguish between "spiritual" and "earthly" and I do not concede the distinction. What I would consider "spiritual" is merely a subset of our earthly and real existence. If there is no moral or ethical arguments, least of all from YOU, against homosexuality, its expression, or its marriage........ then I am not sure merely inventing a god to rubber stamp invented arguments with is going to help.

But by all means...... if you want to submit a god's opinion to the discussion of homosexuality.... start by providing the first SHRED or arguments, evidence, data or reasoning that lends even a modicum of credence to the claim the god even exists in the first place.

This you have not done, but given no one else has either, I remain somewhat skeptical you are about to even try.... let alone succeed. But I remain open minded and, once again sanguine, to see if that prediction holds true.

[DonJuanQuixote]

Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo

If you are aware of any arguments I have missed, by all means enlighten me so I can stop being wrong.

Plenty. But you need to do your own footwork. You're a big boy.

Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo

You attempt to distinguish between "spiritual" and "earthly" and I do not concede the distinction. What I would consider "spiritual" is merely a subset of our earthly and real existence. If there is no moral or ethical arguments, least of all from YOU, against homosexuality, its expression, or its marriage........ then I am not sure merely inventing a god to rubber stamp invented arguments with is going to help.

There's no argument between us then. You believe in a fantasy just as much as you claim I do.

Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo

This you have not done, but given no one else has either, I remain somewhat skeptical you are about to even try.... let alone succeed. But I remain open minded and, once again sanguine, to see if that prediction holds true.

You already stated you only believe in everything only in the context of what you can see and feel. If I bring up points that go over your head, you'll continue to argue on your grounds, which constantly shift (only a century ago you would have been against homosexuality just as the majority was). But again, you're "sanguine" with whatever seems to be the flavor of the month. I stand on a ground that has shifted very little throughout the ages.

[njquestions]

That was a lot of writing. Did he manage to explain how two minors, neither of whom can give consent, can somehow have sex with each other and make it consensual? Or is he still arguing that almost everyone was raped as a minor?


That's the dilemma you face when you try to define deviancy down. At a certain point, you're caught with your pants down because people realize that your arguments to normalize one deviancy can be used with equal justification on any other deviancy.

[zzzSnorlax]

Originally Posted by njquestions

That was a lot of writing. Did he manage to explain how two minors, neither of whom can give consent, can somehow have sex with each other and make it consensual?

Heh, figures you would stop reading when it became clear he was making you out to be a complete a**hole. After all that talk about reading the thread too... Maybe Jesus gives you extra points for lying? Do you need a safe space to protect you from all the big bad gays, my special little snowflake?