"I don't support gay marriage" (ethics, fence, examples)
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First off if you just want to "stick to the new testament" your argument already fails, as the new and old go hand in hand, except where God creates a new covenant with his people, and that does not change the stance on homosexuality.
Convenient. Of course, exactly which rules are covered by the new covenant and which aren't seems to be - kindly put - open to interpretation.
First off if you just want to "stick to the new testament" your argument already fails, as the new and old go hand in hand, except where God creates a new covenant with his people, and that does not change the stance on homosexuality.
Even so, there is plenty of evidence in the new testament itself condemning homosexuality, that is, unless you go to one of those unbiblical churches that tries to justify anything away that won't bring them more membership.
Have a look, and remember to read these passages in their context: Romans 1:26/27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, Jude 1:7, 1 Timothy 1:10
Oh and your earlier argument that "God created homosexuals" is actually true, just like he created Satan. He didn't however, create them to sin.
Ok, if you want to include the OT, be prepared to defend a whole bunch of stuff written in it, and if we have to take your passages literally, will that mean you'll take them all literally.
You actually benefit by us not going into the OT.
Let me know if you want to go OT.
Now, let's talk Romans. Why did you leave out Romans 1:25?
That is what leads into 26 and 27:
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25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this....
This is like many other things in the Bible like money. Once something becomes a distraction from God and His will, it is a problem. At that time, it wasn't uncommon for men of households to be involved with homosexual relations even when they were married with children. These men were alllowing sex to interfere with both the praise of God and duties to the family. It's why 25 leads it off and is the key part.
Do you want to hash this out further before moving into Corinthians?
I did? Actually, all I ever said was that marriage wasn't a right. (Which is true.) And that society rejects gay marriage. (Also true.) And that homosexuality is abnormal. (Also true.)
False.
False again.
1. The US Supreme Court disagrees with you. Same sex couples cannot be denied a marriage certificate all in all 50 states and D.C. and US territories.
2. The American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Sociological Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics ... and scores of other professional organizations ... all disagree with.
You are merely an anonymous poster on an internet forum. Your "pronouncements" in my view are worthless.
In case you skipped that part of civics class, your rights are NOT enumerated in the Constitution.
And yet that's where liberals go to "find" them. Isn't that strange?
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Originally Posted by TriMT7
Nonetheless, equal protection under the law IS a right (14th Amendment) and the supreme court has long held marriage to be a RIGHT of citizens. Put the two together, and there you go.
That's odd, in case you skipped that part of civics class, your rights are NOT enumerated by the Supreme Court. Also, misinterpreting "equal protection" doesn't mean anything to anyone. So, for example, let's use your argument. OK, the Supreme Court has held marriage to be a right. And the 14th Amendment is equal protection. Well, then I guess a citizen can marry a 2 month old because they both have rights. Or I guess a mother can marry her son because they both have rights? Is that so? If not, please explain. Thanks.
Following the last 10 pages of this thread, I have to say I'm almost impressed at your ability to deflect every question without ever explaining your position.
I'm genuinely curious, why is gay marriage immoral? Multiple people have asked but yet you decline to answer. If you have a strong moral conviction about something, you should be able to articulate it. I just want to know what the reasoning is.
Why? I would do so if I were dealing with people who were interested in a genuine discussion of morality, but that's not the case. For example, the left says "morality is subjective." That's fascinating because if morality is subjective, then there is no morality, since that is a definition that morals can be different from person to person or even, in the same person, from minute to minute. But that forms the basis of moral thought to the modern liberal. And, interestingly, after proclaiming that nobody can define morals for other people, they then do so. For example, (most) liberals will agree that pedophilia is wrong. But, since they have so degraded morality, they are then forced to make up some completely arbitrary statement that "...since it's not between consenting adults." Which is irrelevant, since both adulthood and consent are completely arbitrary standards, as I have demonstrated (and if you missed it, I can do so again).
In case you skipped that part of civics class, your rights are NOT enumerated in the Constitution.
In fact, the founders had a big ole debate about whether or not to even include a Bill of Rights at ALL in the Constitution, since they knew that 250 years later someone would think the constitution was supposed to be viewed as a list of rights.
Enter you and others on this thread, proving they were right to be concerned!
Nonetheless, equal protection under the law IS a right (14th Amendment) and the supreme court has long held marriage to be a RIGHT of citizens. Put the two together, and there you go.
If that were truly the case, we would have an amendment, right? Just like we had amendment that allows women to vote. Why is there not an amendment to allow gays to marry? Fundamentally, the legal process us broken. Marriage should be legislated, not ruled on by a judge legislating at the bench.
Honestly, I care more that we have a broken process than I do gay marriage.
1. The US Supreme Court disagrees with you. Same sex couples cannot be denied a marriage certificate all in all 50 states and D.C. and US territories.
2. The American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Sociological Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics ... and scores of other professional organizations ... all disagree with.
You are merely an anonymous poster on an internet forum. Your "pronouncements" in my view are worthless.
If that were truly the case, we would have an amendment, right? Just like we had amendment that allows women to vote. Why is there not an amendment to allow gays to marry? Fundamentally, the legal process us broken. Marriage should be legislated, not ruled on by a judge legislating at the bench.
Honestly, I care more that we have a broken process than I do gay marriage.
There is no amendment allowing those in interracial relationships to marry. That was also a court case. Loving v. Virginia.
Why? I would do so if I were dealing with people who were interested in a genuine discussion of morality, but that's not the case...
Are we going to get another strawman? I shiver with antici...
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For example, the left says...
-pation!
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Repeating stupid stuff doesn't make it true
