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Old 12-17-2016, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
It is not a question of who is right and who is wrong. We are beyond that now and have been for a long time.

Out of curiosity, what is a 'tree hugger' to you?
How do you handle personal disagreements in which you know you're right and the other party is wrong?

Like with a significant other, parent, sibling, friend?
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:16 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,736,880 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by scend57 View Post
Even if man-made "climate change" were true, how does raising taxes (read: more corruption, more government waste, etc) lower the temperature of the planet??
A carbon tax, would and has in many other countries, change behavior, particularly of companies. It becomes more profitable for them to lower their green gas emissions. And make no mistake, until corporations change their behavior, there is little point to force private citizens to do so.

Quote:
Would a liberal explain to me how giving more money to (already) billionaire men/billionaire companies will "lower the earth's temperature"?
It is called climate change, not global warming (despite the myth otherwise) and always has been by the majority of scientists going back to the 50s and 60s. Second, we don't need to change the global temperature, we need to limit the anthropogenic effects of climate change.

Quote:
Also, please explain to us why the so-called "green climate activists" do not practice what they preach and drive around in $50-$80k huge gas guzzling SUVs, huge gas guzzling limousines, gas guzzling private jets, have huge gas guzzling luxury boats, etc?
Its weird that you seem to think you know all people who are involved in climate change. I drive a car that gets 35 mpg highway, if we were a two car family, we would have an electric car.

And once again, even if every private citizen in this country walked every where, it would not lower the per capita footprint until the government and corporations do the same.

Quote:
Please explain how less money in working folks pockets (due to more taxes/more regulations) will cause the temperature of the earth to go down?
Working folks? Are only climate change deniers working folks? That is a strange notion indeed.

Anyway, the vast majority of us who work in the climate sciences (I am an oceanographer) are distinctly middle class, and we work for a living. In the summers I put in 12 hr days for weeks at a time, in extreme conditions.

Additionally, you seem to be making a strawman argument. I would very much like to see a climate tax. FOR CORPORATIONS.

Quote:
Also please explain why "only" Western countries are required to increase taxes and regulations, while China and the third-world can pollute pollute pollute as much as they want and there's not a PEEP from you enviro-lefties/greenies

Thanks for clarifying
So strange that you keep making things up. I would very much like China to decrease their GHG emissions, my boss goes to climate summits in Asia every year to discuss the ill effects of China not limiting their GHG emissions. We talk about the science and the need for everyone to change their policies all the time.
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:19 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,736,880 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
How do you handle personal disagreements in which you know you're right and the other party is wrong?

Like with a significant other, parent, sibling, friend?
Can you please clarify the relevance of the above?

Climate change, and its scientific validity is not a "personal disagreement". Now what policy actions to take can be argued for their individual merits or lack their of, but the rest is not about personal disagreement.
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:32 PM
 
5,913 posts, read 3,186,735 times
Reputation: 4397
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
How do you handle personal disagreements in which you know you're right and the other party is wrong?

Like with a significant other, parent, sibling, friend?
This is not a personal disagreement. I wouldn't have anyone close in my life if they didn't, say, believe in gravity or evolution.
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:40 PM
 
Location: annandale, va & slidell, la
9,267 posts, read 5,121,245 times
Reputation: 8471
Quote:
Originally Posted by scend57 View Post
Even if man-made "climate change" were true, how does raising taxes (read: more corruption, more government waste, etc) lower the temperature of the planet??

Would a liberal explain to me how giving more money to (already) billionaire men/billionaire companies will "lower the earth's temperature"?

Also, please explain to us why the so-called "green climate activists" do not practice what they preach and drive around in $50-$80k huge gas guzzling SUVs, huge gas guzzling limousines, gas guzzling private jets, have huge gas guzzling luxury boats, etc?

Please explain how less money in working folks pockets (due to more taxes/more regulations) will cause the temperature of the earth to go down?

Also please explain why "only" Western countries are required to increase taxes and regulations, while China and the third-world can pollute pollute pollute as much as they want and there's not a PEEP from you enviro-lefties/greenies

Thanks for clarifying
It is their religion, therefore you cannot challenge it.
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Old 12-17-2016, 02:55 PM
 
23,981 posts, read 15,086,618 times
Reputation: 12953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
It is not a question of who is right and who is wrong. We are beyond that now and have been for a long time.

Out of curiosity, what is a 'tree hugger' to you?
I was raised by a person who quoted the Bible all day long. Being a good steward of the earth means to not trash it. I could support rationing of gasoline, electricity and plastics.

There is so much involved with our culture and lifestyle, we don't know what the true cost of using so much petroleum is. Some studies suggest, if you factored in the environmental, health and military cost, gasoline would be over $10 a gallon.

My son informs me that there is a dead spot in the Gulf of Mexico that is enormous. Happens when the rains wash the fertilizer downstream.

IMO, we are not not being a good stewards. Some things are more important creature comforts. How many people are we willing to see die in mines and explosions so we can have cheap electricity and gasoline?
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,543 posts, read 37,145,710 times
Reputation: 14001
Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmove View Post
It is their religion, therefore you cannot challenge it.
Actually you have that backwards.....Religion operates on faith...(belief without evidence) There is tons of evidence for humans driving climate change....So I suggest that climate change deniers are not just a religion, but a cult.
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,368,921 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakformonday View Post
This is not a personal disagreement. I wouldn't have anyone close in my life if they didn't, say, believe in gravity or evolution.
Would you utilize a 3rd party to enforce your beliefs or rules based on those beliefs on anyone who didn't agree with you though?
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Canada
14,735 posts, read 15,043,276 times
Reputation: 34871
Quote:
Originally Posted by scend57 View Post
Even if man-made "climate change" were true, how does raising taxes (read: more corruption, more government waste, etc) lower the temperature of the planet??

Would a liberal explain to me how giving more money to (already) billionaire men/billionaire companies will "lower the earth's temperature"?

Also, please explain to us why the so-called "green climate activists" do not practice what they preach and drive around in $50-$80k huge gas guzzling SUVs, huge gas guzzling limousines, gas guzzling private jets, have huge gas guzzling luxury boats, etc?

Please explain how less money in working folks pockets (due to more taxes/more regulations) will cause the temperature of the earth to go down?

Also please explain why "only" Western countries are required to increase taxes and regulations, while China and the third-world can pollute pollute pollute as much as they want and there's not a PEEP from you enviro-lefties/greenies

Thanks for clarifying

Quote:
I don't understand "climate change" fanatics/liberals.....


I don't understand how climate change denier fanatics can so willingly flaunt their misinformed ignorance and righteous indignation but can't be bothered to do some independent self-education and research for the truth for themselves. And then they have the nerve to call other more knowledgeable people names.

Where did you get the preposterous idea that the sole purpose of lowering greenhouse gases was to lower the earth's temperature?

Did some other misinformed climate change denier fanatic tell you that and you just took it on faith because he said so, or is that some brilliant conclusion that you pulled out of a hat on your own?

All you've done is demonstrate that you haven't got a clue what climate change actually is and what its impacts are. So maybe you should quit the name calling.

The purpose of lowering greenhouse gases is to mitigate the impacts of climate change. It does not mean that it can lower earth's temperature. It does not mean to reverse climate change or make it go away. That can't be done. Mitigate means to decrease or make the impacts of climate change less severe. The only way to do that is to reduce the output of greenhouse gases.

.
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Old 12-17-2016, 03:52 PM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,129,736 times
Reputation: 11095
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
The above paragraph is untrue.

China and Climate Change | Center for Climate and Energy Solutions



China is participating in these accords.
China is also surpassing us in leaps and bounds in the alternative energy sector.

Quote:
This month’s report on renewable energy markets from the International Energy Agency indicates that by 2020, China will account for almost 40 percent of the growth in renewable energy capacity. The United States, meanwhile, lags behind, obsessed with its natural gas boom and riveted by remaining oil reserves on its federally protected lands.

As a result, the U.S. is missing an incredible economic opportunity. Last year alone, new renewable power capacity expanded at its fastest pace yet, and global electricity generation from renewables was roughly on par with that from natural gas. In energy terms, that means annual global renewable power generation rose by 5 percent to over 5,000 terawatt hours – more than enough to power the entire United States.
China Is Besting the U.S. on Renewable Energy | World Report | US News
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