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Bad idea, the fact is there's a reason women aren't interested in STEM fields, with rare exceptions. There may be a few standouts but on the whole women simply just aren't wired to be into such things.
What do you mean wired? Please explain the neurochemistry here in detail if you actually know what you're talking about.
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Originally Posted by Marleinie
Because it's usually men that have any real interest in it. Unlike lots of the men that go into STEM and similar fields how many women do you know spent their childhood creating/building things in their garage or spent lots of time tinkering with electronics and all kinds of similar things?
How can I protect my girls from people telling them this kind of thing and internalizing it? That's the question of the day for me as a parent.
My three year old already identifies gender roles. We were talking about shoveling and snow blowing the driveway and I mentioned that I might do it. She said "noooo...only boys do that" because she always sees my husband doing it. That doesn't mean I cannot do it, but she sees it as a gender role. It's interesting.
She also assumes girls do all the cooking, the driving, all the fixing of appliances (the dryer, washing machines, trash compactors, cars, etc) because that's what mommy does. Even though it has nothing to do with gender. I hate that people are going to tell them what they can and cannot do.
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Originally Posted by Griphin
Sorry ladies, but this whole idea that men are oh so missing out at some incredible ground breaking innovative technological achievements without women couldn't be further from the truth. Even despite women being "kept down" men managed to go from sticks and stones to the MOON all without the help of women.
And the truth is I guarantee even in a hypothetical female-dominated world where women would have absolutely no excuse to be held back in anyway the vast majority of builders, innovators, creators, those getting into the nitty gritty and details etc. etc. etc. would STILL be men.
Cassy, did you have a chance to take a glance at the questions of this PISA test? It's now 4:58 AM in California, I'm half sleeping, and still I was able to do all the sample questions right.
"Why the speed of meteorites is increasing when they approaching Earth?
"The meteoroid is attracted to the mass of Earth."
Realy?
That's great for you, but not relevant to the point.
It's relevant to the point that in this test I don't see hard calculus, chemistry, physics etc, just some common sense and very easy math questions.
I think the level is fitting for the age group, which is 15 year olds. So, you are not going to see hard anything.
Sample question and answer with the work is in the link I provided earlier.
When speaking about the gender divide we see the trend grow with age from childhood to HS. None of this stuff is particularly difficult and there is no reason that anyone should not be able to successfully answer these questions, but when children do not and we see differences based on gender we have to examine why.
If someone in this thread cannot answer the simple question above what does that mean? They don't have the potential?
ETA: I found this discussion:
"Physical Systems that require knowledge of: Structure of matter (e.g., particle model, bonds) Properties of matter (e.g., changes of state, thermal and electrical conductivity) Chemical changes of matter (e.g., chemical reactions, energy transfer, acids/bases) Motion and forces (e.g., velocity, friction) and action at a distance (e.g., magnetic, gravitational and electrostatic forces) Energy and its transformation (e.g., conservation, dissipation, chemical reactions) Interactions between energy and matter (e.g., light and radio waves, sound and seismic waves)
Living "
So, I assume there will be basic questions in the test that cover this stuff (physics word problems, chemical reactions, etc)
Last edited by Cassy Fae; 02-19-2017 at 06:51 AM..
When speaking about the gender divide we see the trend grow with age from childhood to HS. None of this stuff is particularly difficult and there is no reason that anyone should not be able to successfully answer these questions, but when children do not and we see differences based on gender we have to examine why.
If someone in this thread cannot answer the simple question above what does that mean? They don't have the potential?
ETA: I found this discussion:
"Physical Systems that require knowledge of: Structure of matter (e.g., particle model, bonds) Properties of matter (e.g., changes of state, thermal and electrical conductivity) Chemical changes of matter (e.g., chemical reactions, energy transfer, acids/bases) Motion and forces (e.g., velocity, friction) and action at a distance (e.g., magnetic, gravitational and electrostatic forces) Energy and its transformation (e.g., conservation, dissipation, chemical reactions) Interactions between energy and matter (e.g., light and radio waves, sound and seismic waves)
Living "
So, I assume there will be basic questions in the test that cover this stuff (physics word problems, chemical reactions, etc)
I'm trying to explain something simple: There are very tall and strong women that can play basketball and even dunk. It doesn't mean that it's making sense to have a goal of 50% women players in the NBA.
What do you mean wired? Please explain the neurochemistry here in detail if you actually know what you're talking about.
What I mean is men and women are just prone to be interested in different things which are inherent. There are gender roles. People need to accept it. There is a difference between men and women... and thank God for that.
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How can I protect my girls from people telling them this kind of thing and internalizing it? That's the question of the day for me as a parent.
Is that something you are really afraid of? She's growing up in a world where she's going to be pushed by feminism to do anything, regardless whether it makes sense or not.
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My three year old already identifies gender roles. We were talking about shoveling and snow blowing the driveway and I mentioned that I might do it. She said "noooo...only boys do that" because she always sees my husband doing it. That doesn't mean I cannot do it, but she sees it as a gender role. It's interesting.
And you can be the good majority of women are quite happy with that, along with any kind of home repair, tech repair etc. Heck, most women would scoff at doing any of that.
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She also assumes girls do all the cooking, the driving, all the fixing of appliances (the dryer, washing machines, trash compactors, cars, etc) because that's what mommy does. Even though it has nothing to do with gender. I hate that people are going to tell them what they can and cannot do.
If you do all of that then it's probably because you don't have a man around to do it for you.
I'm trying to explain something simple: There are very tall and strong women that can play basketball and even dunk. It doesn't mean that it's making sense to have a goal of 50% women players in the NBA.
Again, what people seem to fail to grasp is that it's not about sacrificing merit for diversity. That's what you're saying, but you are wrong. Women are fully capable and GE knows it.
eta:Let's also keep in mind that this is about STEM, not pro-sports, where only a minuscule percentage of the population ever makes it. The STEM fields are not some holy grail unattainable by most, let alone women.
Last edited by Cassy Fae; 02-19-2017 at 08:15 AM..
It is the same thing. I'll share a story about middle school. After a few months, my math teacher mad a call to the students about joining the math team. I think this meant finishing a test in a certain time period, but I don't remember the details.
I didn't think about joining the math team. All of the continuing members where boys. I didn't particularly have any interest. My math teacher approached me after class and said, hey you scored in the top 2 of class why aren't you joining the math team - we need you! I asked her what it entailed - weekly meetings for practice and we did 4 or so competitions a year. Oh and the competitions meant field trips. Some were overnight trips. I was sold then.
I continued on with math team through senior year of high school. I was a good math student. I wasn't joined by any other women. There were some good female math students, but they didn't get encouraged to participate in that way. They ended up doing other things.
Most of my fellow math teammates were welcoming and friendly. But as I was graduating, the lower classman that was headed towards captain status was really arrogant, and I could see how it would easily turn other people off. Colleagues matter.
I didn't continue on the STEM path (and that is a whole separate topic...likely because I had no idea what engineers or mathematicians or statisticians did. Our education system does an awful job of making STEM feel fun and practical.)
It doesn't take much to steer women into STEM. Communicating it is an option, and making us feel welcome when we get there is required. A lot of time the lack of a welcoming atmosphere is what causes the turnover.
Yes! Contrast this with my mother's experience. She had the top grades in her high school math classes, but when she told her advisor that she wanted to study mathematics in college, she was told it wasn't an appropriate career choice for women. She ended up in early childhood ed instead. She had the interest and the ability. What she didn't have were support and encouragement.
What I mean is men and women are just prone to be interested in different things which are inherent. There are gender roles. People need to accept it. There is a difference between men and women... and thank God for that.
This does not address the question of neurochemistry and how gender roles fit, if at all, into our physiology. You don't know. You have an assumption and while it's fine if you want to apply it to yourself, it's unfair to apply it to millions of people.
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Is that something you are really afraid of? She's growing up in a world where she's going to be pushed by feminism to do anything, regardless whether it makes sense or not.
I'm not sure what this means. I want her to have the opportunity to do whatever she wants- science, medicine, music, wherever her passions bring her so that she doesn't spend her days feeling like she's missing something or could be doing something more.
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And you can be the good majority of women are quite happy with that, along with any kind of home repair, tech repair etc. Heck, most women would scoff at doing any of that.
That's totally fine for them, but that should not be a burden for women, for my daughters. Being lazy is one thing, but saying you can't do it because you're incapable is another.
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If you do all of that then it's probably because you don't have a man around to do it for you.
I have a husband and I don't need a man do that for me. Again, that's a matter of laziness imo and that's just not what I'm about. Again, being lazy doesn't mean you're stupid either.
So, the NBA should set a goal of having 60% of its players white?
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Originally Posted by HockeyMac18
Nice deflection.
Are you implying that women are less capable than men at preforming STEM work?
Gender differences notwithstanding (which exist), that doesn't mean there is a difference in overall ability to preform the work. Are you suggesting that there is? Please kindly prove that.
Hmm, apparently you seem to think there are physical differences between blacks and whites.
Wow!
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