Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I really don't understand this "role model" thing. Ok, so you don't know anybody in STEM. But you have news papers, you have tv, you have internet, all the info is there, choose your role model as you like.
The "role model" issue is something that was invented by Leftwing educators to explain away the fact that some groups outperform others. Obviously, this whole idea is stupid. A girl can't have a male as a role model? A girl can't see a successful man and decide she wants to follow his path? Weren't many successful women already inspired by men? And if girls need to see a woman in a particular line of work before she decides that she also wants to go into that field, what does that say about females in general? That they aren't capable of thinking outside the box?
Given our current culture, it's probably a good business move, but not because they care about women.
Their goal is 50/50 but lets revisit this figure by the deadline, including retention because that will be where the rubber meets the road.
I've worked with several female engineers and questioned them about their interests in the field (life safety) and what duties they actually perform. They like being involved in the inspection/compliance side of things versus, say design (which involves highly technical work on a regular basis).
My own anecdote confirms what other posters have expressed about many women. Although they're capable of performing the work, they simply don't have an interest in it to the same extent that men do.
Hell, men who enjoy STEM subjects as a recreational activity are regularly made fun of and labeled geeks by men AND women. Most people period aren't STEM material. If you don't have an interest in something that requires rigorous, often mundane (depending on your perspective), mental effort, you probably aren't a good candidate.
How many people's eyes glaze over if presented with a schematic for an airplane engine? It's like the bell curve for IQ. There are more men at the bottom & top and more women in the center. This translates to less people overall at each end and even less women.
Some are completely missing this point, that it's not about "crunching the formulas" and "passing the tests," but actually proceeding to the next level, improving and designing the new things.
And yes, that requires A LOT of "rigorous and often mundane mental effort," and a lot of consistency and persistence, which women usually don't have for this kind of tasks. If they'd be wired for this kind of things, exactly in the same manner as men, they wouldn't be able to switch that easily to the childbirth/rearing of children, which is their primary responsibility.
Heck, obviously not even all men are capable of this particular kind of "mental effort," that's why this "tech pool" is relatively small overall.
I really don't understand this "role model" thing. Ok, so you don't know anybody in STEM. But you have news papers, you have tv, you have internet, all the info is there, choose your role model as you like.
Is this a serious question? Why do people need role models?
The possibilities in your imagination are limited by what you can see and have access to.
People in STEM careers are virtually invisible in pop culture. It is getting marginally better now. I was an avid reader as a kid. I don't recall a single book I read with a scientist outside of a doctor until I read Jurassic Park as a teen. There was a Tv show I can't recall right now that came on when I as a preteen about parapsychologists. That was a career goal for me for five minutes.
The few movies that has people doing "computer stuff" had super awkward people who built things. I am not mechanically oriented so building a computer was never of interest to me, and that was the only visible place for "techie" people to explore their interests as I was growing up.
The Internet did not exist when I was a kid. It was barely arriving at college campuses when I got there.
Now there are lots of kids toys that allow them to use audrino kits to program robots to do stuff like add working lights and light switches to a dollhouse, though at this point if I were 15 years younger I would have been more interested in statistics, probability, data science and maybe game design. Would that have translated in a different career? Who knows.
Today, my role is systems and processes and I just fell into that after doing a variety of sales and marketing roles. And my role is pretty technical anyway. I am an anomaly as it is a male dominated segment anyway. Apparently we still think women are incapable of understanding systems. I have found in my career I have to work extra hard to validate I have the technical authority - even though marketing in general is packed with women. Somehow my role is only for men.
And based in current trends - with working age men dropping out of the workplace in droves, women are going to have to pick up the slack. Just like in WW2.
The "role model" issue is something that was invented by Leftwing educators to explain away the fact that some groups outperform others. Obviously, this whole idea is stupid. A girl can't have a male as a role model? A girl can't see a successful man and decide she wants to follow his path? Weren't many successful women already inspired by men? And if girls need to see a woman in a particular line of work before she decides that she also wants to go into that field, what does that say about females in general? That they aren't capable of thinking outside the box?
Please name some well known scientists, math materials and engineers of any gender over age 35.
You know what my career aspirations were as a child/teen: Supreme Court justice, president, interior decorator. Oprah, parapsychologist*, sports agent, and general manager of a sports team.
These people were just more visible in pop culture than "STEM" people.
My first job was in PR because someone told me it had a lot of writing and communicating and they thought I was good at that stuff. While lots of people told me I was good at math, that never translated into anything besides teaching. And I tried it and didn't like it.
*i loved ghost stories and paranormal stuff. Read lots of books on these themes.
Again, what people seem to fail to grasp is that it's not about sacrificing merit for diversity. That's what you're saying, but you are wrong. Women are fully capable and GE knows it.
eta:Let's also keep in mind that this is about STEM, not pro-sports, where only a minuscule percentage of the population ever makes it. The STEM fields are not some holy grail unattainable by most, let alone women.
No, STEM fields ( particularly when it comes to physics/electricity/mechanics, but not limited to,) are precisely the holy grail, as the modern history proves us.
This is what separates the first world countries from the third ones, the metropoles from colonies and the rest.
And it happens to be so, that the specific people that advance those causes ( i.e. that are capable of moving the science, and thus increasing the advantage of some nations over the others) are White males, predominantly of Northern European descent ( add Jews there.)
It is what is is, and your anecdotal evidence to prove otherwise is just that - anecdotal evidence.
Some are completely missing this point, that it's not about "crunching the formulas" and "passing the tests," but actually proceeding to the next level, improving and designing the new things.
And yes, that requires A LOT of "rigorous and often mundane mental effort," and a lot of consistency and persistence, which women usually don't have for this kind of tasks. If they'd be wired for this kind of things, exactly in the same manner as men, they wouldn't be able to switch that easily to the childbirth/rearing of children, which is their primary responsibility.
Heck, obviously not even all men are capable of this particular kind of "mental effort," that's why this "tech pool" is relatively small overall.
Just wow. I mean wow. Because of child rearing? Seriously? And you don't think it takes persistence to potty train kids, feed them when they want to throw their food everywhere? That doesn't require problem solving and design?
And just all the general labor in child rearing? And what about teaching? That requires persistence and mundane tasks, so women are equipped for this, but not men.
This thread has done an excellent job of illustrating all the casual sexism that is the real reason women drop out when they get to work in STEM. Their colleagues do not think or treat them like peers.
Is this a serious question? Why do people need role models?
The possibilities in your imagination are limited by what you can see and have access to.
People in STEM careers are virtually invisible in pop culture. It is getting marginally better now. I was an avid reader as a kid. I don't recall a single book I read with a scientist outside of a doctor until I read Jurassic Park as a teen. There was a Tv show I can't recall right now that came on when I as a preteen about parapsychologists. That was a career goal for me for five minutes.
The few movies that has people doing "computer stuff" had super awkward people who built things. I am not mechanically oriented so building a computer was never of interest to me, and that was the only visible place for "techie" people to explore their interests as I was growing up.
The Internet did not exist when I was a kid. It was barely arriving at college campuses when I got there.
Now there are lots of kids toys that allow them to use audrino kits to program robots to do stuff like add working lights and light switches to a dollhouse, though at this point if I were 15 years younger I would have been more interested in statistics, probability, data science and maybe game design. Would that have translated in a different career? Who knows.
Today, my role is systems and processes and I just fell into that after doing a variety of sales and marketing roles. And my role is pretty technical anyway. I am an anomaly as it is a male dominated segment anyway. Apparently we still think women are incapable of understanding systems. I have found in my career I have to work extra hard to validate I have the technical authority - even though marketing in general is packed with women. Somehow my role is only for men.
And based in current trends - with working age men dropping out of the workplace in droves, women are going to have to pick up the slack. Just like in WW2.
Now it's my turn to question - "is this serious?"
So how were children EVER getting interested in science without "audrino kits to program robots" and "working lights and light switches to dollhouses?"
I mean WHO invented even those things, (apparently being interested in science without any "dollhouses with light switches") at the first place?
And as far as the "pop culture" goes, that doesn't promote "STEM careers," how do SOME people still find their way to them?
Is it because they are just born with talents no matter what, and their "call" allows them to disregard all the claptrap of "pop culture?"
Could this be the case?
Just wow. I mean wow. Because of child rearing? Seriously? And you don't think it takes persistence to potty train kids, feed them when they want to throw their food everywhere? That doesn't require problem solving and design?
And just all the general labor in child rearing? And what about teaching? That requires persistence and mundane tasks, so women are equipped for this, but not men.
This thread has done an excellent job of illustrating all the casual sexism that is the real reason women drop out when they get to work in STEM. Their colleagues do not think or treat them like peers.
AS A MOTHER I can assure you that it takes "persistence to potty train kids" and "feed them" and there are plenty of "mundane tasks" of washing clothes, cooking and washing dishes while raising them, but It's not the kind of ABSTRACT mental capacity that's required for STEM careers.
As I've mentioned before, I've been raised by a woman who was a top notch professional in math/physics area and I am perfectly aware of the difference in the "mental capacities."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
