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Black women lower their standards when its too late. Any way, this is from my observation and experience with black women. And yes I love, I love, I love black women. And I would not mind marrying on either. I tend to attract educated, talented professional black women. I don't attract the other kind even though I live in such areas. I'm well spoken, well put together, and I hold a couple of degrees myself, but without the debt. I was supposed to go on a date with this beautiful black woman. Smart educated, has an MA, single no kids, and she is in her mid 30s. As for me? single, no kids, no criminal record, good credit score, educated, employed and such. However I told her about a comment I made on a public forum that was controversial. Black men were telling me to go back to my country, calling me racist and xenophobic comments first. I called them the N word back. I didn't mean it. I'm also a black man myself, but not African American. But being mixed race, people do see me as an outsider. Any way, she could not date me because of that one word. This woman lost herself the closest thing to a good man and a good black man in general. She will be single for another year or so. And she is the type where physical attraction isn't anything.
On the other hand, some black women do need physical attraction to be with someone, but these women are not well educated. Also its not only black women who think about criteria's they want in a man. White women do it too. In many urban liberal areas of America, you have plenty of white women who moved for careers, and for them finding a good man is hard. Plenty of well educated, attractive career driven white men are getting plenty of tail in NYC and DC.
I do not blame that beautiful black American woman. I would have done the exact same. The reason? Because you think the same about black American women and that woman knew that one day you would refer to her (or someone she cares about) as an N-word too.
So what if the woman is single for another year, another five years or even for the rest of her life, she has her own standards. Something about the way that you said that this beautiful black woman lost a "good thang" by turning you down reminds me of a scene in The Color Purple....
A good, respectful man regardless of race holds way more value than the "good black man" trope. A lot of "good black men" are attempting to hold this over black women as some sort of leverage. Yes, it works on some black women but many of us have relationships beyond black men so it truly is no longer an effective tool to us as "leverage".
This is true not only for Africans but for other black people as well in other parts of the world. My parents believed blacks like to shoot people. This is a stereotype. Also I remember following my mom to the doctors office years ago, and I came across a man of Caribbean descent who has been here in America for years. He said white people would prefer to hire Caribbean people because African Americans were too lazy. And don't get me started on the Dominican Republic and what they think about African Americans. I knew this one Dominican guy, he was upset because his subordinate was playing basketball. He told his subordinate why are you playing a sport with monkeys? Funny thing is this Dominican guy looks like the President of Sudan.
LMAO. When I lived in NYC I worked with a Dominican guy and we'd have discussions where I'd point out Dominicans have black roots. He would protest vigorously. He'd say yes there are some with black roots but most have indigenous roots. Well he and his girl had a baby and they invited me to the Christening. I attend and at the function afterwards I notice the older dark skinned man sitting and talking among the family members. I ask who he is and my friend replies, "my grandfather", I smile and he smiles.
]I am a product of the Jack and Jill, Inc./ The Links, Inc./ The Girl Friends, Inc./Divine Nine/the Talented Tenth world several generations[/b] back so there is no need to encourage me to broaden my horizons. The issues of colorism/featurism and misogynoir is even MORE prominent in that world.
I am simply being honest about what I as an upper middle class, college educated, natural haired, brown skinned black woman have experienced.
Don't these organizations have matchmaking services? You can't have a culture if it doesn't replicate itself.
I do not blame that beautiful black American woman. I would have done the exact same. The reason? Because you think the same about black American women and that woman knew that one day you would refer to her (or someone she cares about) as an N-word too.
So what if the woman is single for another year, another five years or even for the rest of her life, she has her own standards. Something about the way that you said that this beautiful black woman lost a "good thang" by turning you down reminds me of a scene in The Color Purple....
A good, respectful man regardless of race holds way more value than the "good black man" trope. A lot of "good black men" are attempting to hold this over black women as some sort of leverage. Yes, it works on some black women but many of us have relationships beyond black men so it truly is no longer an effective tool to us as "leverage".
I agree with you on that. But the thing is that I never use the term. Its been years since I ever used that term actually. Its not even in my vocabulary and its another reason why I don't listen to Hip Hop. But any way, these guys said racist things at me first. Just as bad as the N word. Its funny because those same black people that are arguing with me, the same educated black women are trying to avoid. So the hypocrisy must stop. I also took the comments further. I said some stuff that were true. ANd truth hurts. This is why so many black women on youtube are gunning after men. But the thing is this, there is not a lot of good black men with a head on their shoulders. And Their are stats to back this up. Example, I don't know what a jail cell is. Or I don't know what Academic Probation feels like. We all say things that we don't mean, but for people to say things and they mean it, but they don't get in trouble for it. But overall. I moved on. But now? I'll be more cautious with black women because they are far too sensitive than lets say non black women.
Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 04-14-2017 at 09:43 AM..
Oh honey you didn't get the memo? Black women should give up everything that is important to her (youth, beauty, sex, children, money, etc) for a black man so long as he stayed off the prison yard and got a job at FedEx.nothing wrong with being career oriented but no need to belittle someone working for FedEx. Ask Gina F. Adams. She works for FedEx as the Senior Vice President of Government Affairs. We are not supposed to have any expectations of him or his limitations because of dwight mann. We are not supposed to expect real dates, courting, and god forbid marriage. Black women = gold digger. White women = smart. Black men gaslight black AMERICAN women into being soldiers for the race because if they didn't we would be out here like every other woman on this planet looking for the best deal regardless of his complexion. For some reason, I doubt that you've met every black man
This thread is a form of gaslighting: yet you INSISTED on contributing?Black men always want to talk, negotiate and try to police and dominate us and our choices instead of strategizing and building with other black men so they can compete with the white man they so desperately want to emulate. The so-called "good black man" needs to focus on banding together with men instead of trying to bring black women back into the fold. They want the white man's status, his power, his money, and his woman but do nothing necessary to establish themselves as men in a patriarchal society. Just talk or complain about racism.well racism does exist
I'm not trying to police anybody. Also, I'm not a "so called good black man", I'm a good black man. I'm also not trying to emulate anybody. Not trying to compete with any race either, but since when is wanting wealth and stability a "white" thing? Also I see plenty of black couples where I'm at who get married, who still court, who go on dates. Where the hell are you at that it would be such a rarity?
Last edited by pandorafan5687; 04-14-2017 at 10:21 AM..
Oh honey you didn't get the memo? Black women should give up everything that is important to her (youth, beauty, sex, children, money, etc) for a black man so long as he stayed off the prison yard and got a job at FedEx. We are not supposed to have any expectations of him or his limitations because of dwight mann. We are not supposed to expect real dates, courting, and god forbid marriage. Black women = gold digger. White women = smart. Black men gaslight black AMERICAN women into being soldiers for the race because if they didn't we would be out here like every other woman on this planet looking for the best deal regardless of his complexion.
This thread is a form of gaslighting: Black men always want to talk, negotiate and try to police and dominate us and our choices instead of strategizing and building with other black men so they can compete with the white man they so desperately want to emulate. The so-called "good black man" needs to focus on banding together with men instead of trying to bring black women back into the fold. They want the white man's status, his power, his money, and his woman but do nothing necessary to establish themselves as men in a patriarchal society. Just talk or complain about racism.
All of my comments, as a white woman, on this thread were not solely directed at black women other than many black women happen to be reading this thread.
Anecdotal personal experience:
I dated a white man who went to an elite private high school, an Ivy League university, graduated with honors and went on to become a mechanical engineer. At 23 years old he was pulling down $75,000 per year back in 1995. Perfect, right? No. He was the cheapest person I've ever met in my life. When I tell you he had a hard time buying me an ICE CREAM CONE on a date, I'm not exaggerating in the least. He was also emotionally abusive and manipulative. Besides his looks and his bank account, he had nothing going for him. He has already been married and divorced twice.
Now my husband? He's a white man who went to a poor public high school. He grew up in the sticks. Over the years, he's been a waiter, call center representative and now a truck driver. I would describe our economic situation as lower middle class. My husband has the biggest heart I've seen on most anyone. He is constantly volunteering at our church, he makes sure to budget so we have money to give to charity and he's helped countless acquaintances, friends and even strangers through out the years. He's an excellent, involved father to our children and my best friend.
Do we live in a beautiful home in the suburbs? No.
Do we have money for European vacations? No.
Do we drive late model vehicles? No.
Do I get my nails and hair done and get new clothes? No.
But I have a man with a backbone, a work ethic, and a heart full of love and compassion. I'm HAPPY because I'm sharing my life with someone I feel I don't deserve. Yeah, I could've had all the bells and whistles of an upper middle class lifestyle but I would have been in a loveless abusive marriage to a man who didn't want me to have children because "then I would be complaining about having to take care of them."
This is why I say singling BCW out of the dating pool is disingenuous at best and flat out shallow at worst.
I personally believe in hypergamy. It is what I strive for in my own relationships and it was taught to me by the elder men and women in my life. Its not about "the money" but I want to be cared for and in turn I will take care of my man.
Yes, I can take care of myself and I do well financially but I am a traditionalist do not want a marriage in which I am the breadwinner or required to contribute a large portion to the household income after I have children. What I have found interesting is that I have NEVER received a pushback from white or Hispanic guys when I talk about being a traditional woman but black guys tend to have a problem with it. But my (black) father believed that it was his duty to be the breadwinner and my mother worked only if she wanted to do so. He valued the beautiful home that she kept and that she took care of her looks. That may sound shallow to some but they were married for over 40 years.
I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a traditional marriage at all but just don't like it when many women, like jerseygal described, will look for a man only to take care of her financially.
As I stated in my previous post, oftentimes men will take advantage of and belittle their wives due to not valuing them because they are not making money. Taking care of a home and children is VERY important work and unfortunately not all men appreciate the time and effort that goes into that. I'll be honest though that many of the younger women today do not know how to take care of a home.
I also am someone who wants to have a man to care for me emotionally and physically, and I reciprocate, in kind. But I think due to me being in a relationship for so long (we are going on 15 years) that I know that the things a woman does in the home is just not appreciated and valued at times and it can be mentally draining dealing with that sort of situation at home. It can be depressing being a SAHM because of the isolation and the devaluation of the important work you do for your family.
It also does depend on your mate and that is why I do feel that women should not lower their standards; however, I think the behavior and actions of the man are more important standards than how he looks, his career, or the amount of money he makes.
Why do people NEVER tell Asian or white women that they should date blue collar men? Why is this ONLY said to black women? Black women are ALWAYS told to lower our standards. Why?
The think we are bottom of the barrel and should be happy with whatever scraps we can get.
All of my comments, as a white woman, on this thread were not solely directed at black women other than many black women happen to be reading this thread.
Anecdotal personal experience:
I dated a white man who went to an elite private high school, an Ivy League university, graduated with honors and went on to become a mechanical engineer. At 23 years old he was pulling down $75,000 per year back in 1995. Perfect, right? No. He was the cheapest person I've ever met in my life. When I tell you he had a hard time buying me an ICE CREAM CONE on a date, I'm not exaggerating in the least. He was also emotionally abusive and manipulative. Besides his looks and his bank account, he had nothing going for him. He has already been married and divorced twice.
Now my husband? He's a white man who went to a poor public high school. He grew up in the sticks. Over the years, he's been a waiter, call center representative and now a truck driver. I would describe our economic situation as lower middle class. My husband has the biggest heart I've seen on most anyone. He is constantly volunteering at our church, he makes sure to budget so we have money to give to charity and he's helped countless acquaintances, friends and even strangers through out the years. He's an excellent, involved father to our children and my best friend.
Do we live in a beautiful home in the suburbs? No.
Do we have money for European vacations? No.
Do we drive late model vehicles? No.
Do I get my nails and hair done and get new clothes? No.
But I have a man with a backbone, a work ethic, and a heart full of love and compassion. I'm HAPPY because I'm sharing my life with someone I feel I don't deserve. Yeah, I could've had all the bells and whistles of an upper middle class lifestyle but I would have been in a loveless abusive marriage to a man who didn't want me to have children because "then I would be complaining about having to take care of them."
This is why I say singling BCW out of the dating pool is disingenuous at best and flat out shallow at worst.
As a white woman, I feel it is disingenuous for you to compare your own personal experiences to negate the realities black women face as we navigate the dating and mating pool. You had a wider range in latitude of in choosing a BCW over your ivy league cheapskate because men that LOOK LIKE your husband and your father have built an infrastructure to provide and protect for women and children who look LIKE YOU. Even though your husband is a BCW he still has a collective of other men who look like him to band together and strategize with in order to protect the women and children of his race. You benefit by having a larger society and culture which exhalts your image and likeness and to protect it at all costs, especially to the expense of other races of women. So yeah...my apologies for being "shallow" but I have a little bit more to think about in a life partner than you do. My stakes are just a witty bit higher than yours. If I go missing or get hurt there aren't going to be a huge collective of black male police officers, rescue teams, search agents, K9s etc going out there looking for me or prosecuting my attacker.
Additionally, the average black BCW cannot provide that sense of security for most educated black women and children. Even if the individual guy is decent, hardworking, and a provider he is weakened because he does not have a collective group of other equally responsible black men to turn to and build with. In order to compensate for this, educated desirable black women will require black men to at least bring to the table what they have (education, home, no to low debt, etc.) or they will seek equally yoked men elsewhere.
Black men have to accept the duality of being the bread winner in the traditional sense and being an equal partner in a relationship. It’s a little like W.E. B. Du Bois’s “Double consciousness.”
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