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Exactly people have a serious misunderstanding of what entails a culture. What are African-American mating and courting rituals? What are their baptism ceremonies and funerals like? Could an African-American from the 1800s recognize aspects of their life and customs if they were transported today? There is scant continuity of tradition and customs among African-Americans and whatever there is from whites.
It seems you have a serious misunderstanding of culture as well.
Black churches were developed here in this country in the 1700s and we have specific baptism ceremonies and funerals....
Those two are funny things to mention considering I grew up in the "black church" and go to funerals of friends and families and they are very different from white American traditions in both but they do vary (especially baptismal) by church tradition. Funerals are pretty much the same. Even the same songs are usually sang at black funerals. I was just thinking of my grandmother recently because I went to a funeral and they sang that same song that they sing at every black funeral "Blessed Assurance." There are about 5 other common songs sang at black funerals and they follow a specific pattern.
A black American from the 1800s would very much recognize the church and funeral customs as they have not changed much over the years
On "courting rituals" I can agree there is no "ritual" to courting but there are traditional cultural events and ceremonies in various black communities that related to a girl "coming out" via a cotillion tradition (of which I was forced to endure lol).
We also have our very longstanding societies and fraternities and masonic orders, that are still popular and that follow traditions based on when they were founded. I'm doing research right now on my ancestors who were involved in Prince Hall Masons and the Daughters of Isis organizations, both of which sponsored and/or oversaw many of the "coming of age" ceremonies in black communities for generations and they still do.
As stated before, you don't know much about black American culture. You shouldn't speak ill on things you know little of. Also, again, if you don't like our culture you can live among white Americans primarily but I do wonder why you just don't move back to your parent's homeland where you can be amongst a more acceptable culture to yourself.
At one time Booker T. Washington spoke of the "gentleman laborer" and during the turn of the century the most highly educated black men were train porters. Today a blue collar black man is not the same catch as he was from even back in the 50's or 60's. Black women have higher literacy rates an educational attainment than black men and have to compete for the few educated black men within their class. Black men need to stay in school or at least become literate if they want to be considered a catch today.
I know single blue collar black men who probably have a half a million dollars in the bank but haven't read a book since they were in elementary school. They wonder why that attractive well educated black women shows no interest in them.
The Asian model of finding a man to support you and then falling in love later might not work with black women because black women and men are equals and have been from the colonial period.
This reminds me of a (black) guy that I dated briefly several years ago. We started talking about travel, where we had been and the possibility of taking a trip together. I asked him what would be his dream destination any where in the world and his answer was Florida . This sparked a deeper discussion because I told him that I love to travel overseas and I asked him if he would be willing to get a passport. He literally acted insulted that I would even suggest the need for a passport and said that there was nothing outside of the US that he needed to see. This guy is college educated with a white collar job.
They did in the past. Just like Ghanaians do today, so what of it? Your point is silly. Frankly we aren't coming here for anything African-Americans developed. You guys were just the help so come down from the soapbox.
Germans didn't demean other white Americans like you are doing to black Americans.
And you also are "the help." Everything was done for you and you even had "rights" afforded to you in every state as a black man based upon the work of black Americans and ironically Germans, who were heavily involved in the UGGR in many areas.
Again, not sure why you even want to stay in America or live around any black people or even speak to us if you think of us so negatively. I don't talk to groups of people I don't like or look down upon. Makes no sense to do so.
This reminds me of a (black) guy that I dated briefly several years ago. We started talking about travel, where we had been and the possibility of taking a trip together. I asked him what would be his dream destination any where in the world and his answer was Florida. This sparked a deeper discussion because I told him that I love to travel overseas and I asked him if he would be willing to get a passport. He literally acted insulted that I would even suggest the need for a passport and said that there was nothing outside of the US that he needed to see. This guy is college educated with a white collar job.
Okay, I had to giggle at the bold lol!
But in regards to the comment you posted from thrifty, if a blue collar guy has a million dollars in the bank and doesn't read and his ultimate trip is to Florida, he's not my kind of guy.
As stated, I don't place a man providing for me as a high priority. I can provide financially for myself. That is why a lot of black women in particular say we don't "need a man." I honestly do not "need" a man, but I "want" a man because I value that companionship and friendship (and other benefits ). But I don't need a man to give me money. I can make my own money. I want a man who wants to travel with me and discuss the themes of books and how they relate to our present day era and who makes me laugh and will be apt to comfort me when I'm having a bad day. Money is not and IMO should not be something a woman strives for in a man. I think that causes a disturbance in the balance of the relationship. Both should bring something to the table and make financial plans together and if that plan is the man providing, then that is fine, but no woman IMO should seek a man to take care of her financially. If she is able bodied and able minded she can do that herself. I agree with him that black women and black men have for a long time been "equals." Ironically I believe that the issues between us as discussed in the thread are a factor only because many black men don't like that they are equals to black women and instead they want a more Christian based, patriarchal family where they are the dominant leader in the family. They want to have an advantage and not be equal to the woman.
But in regards to the comment you posted from thrifty, if a blue collar guy has a million dollars in the bank and doesn't read and his ultimate trip is to Florida, he's not my kind of guy.
As stated, I don't place a man providing for me as a high priority. I can provide financially for myself. That is why a lot of black women in particular say we don't "need a man." I honestly do not "need" a man, but I "want" a man because I value that companionship and friendship (and other benefits ). But I don't need a man to give me money. I can make my own money. I want a man who wants to travel with me and discuss the themes of books and how they relate to our present day era and who makes me laugh and will be apt to comfort me when I'm having a bad day. Money is not and IMO should not be something a woman strives for in a man. I think that causes a disturbance in the balance of the relationship. Both should bring something to the table and make financial plans together and if that plan is the man providing, then that is fine, but no woman IMO should seek a man to take care of her financially. If she is able bodied and able minded she can do that herself. I agree with him that black women and black men have for a long time been "equals." Ironically I believe that the issues between us as discussed in the thread are a factor only because many black men don't like that they are equals to black women and instead they want a more Christian based, patriarchal family where they are the dominant leader in the family. They want to have an advantage and not be equal to the woman.
I personally believe in hypergamy. It is what I strive for in my own relationships and it was taught to me by the elder men and women in my life. Its not about "the money" but I want to be cared for and in turn I will take care of my man.
Yes, I can take care of myself and I do well financially but I am a traditionalist do not want a marriage in which I am the breadwinner or required to contribute a large portion to the household income after I have children. What I have found interesting is that I have NEVER received a pushback from white or Hispanic guys when I talk about being a traditional woman but black guys tend to have a problem with it. But my (black) father believed that it was his duty to be the breadwinner and my mother worked only if she wanted to do so. He valued the beautiful home that she kept and that she took care of her looks. That may sound shallow to some but they were married for over 40 years.
Why do people NEVER tell Asian or white women that they should date blue collar men? Why is this ONLY said to black women? Black women are ALWAYS told to lower our standards. Why?
Oh honey you didn't get the memo? Black women should give up everything that is important to her (youth, beauty, sex, children, money, etc) for a black man so long as he stayed off the prison yard and got a job at FedEx. We are not supposed to have any expectations of him or his limitations because of dwight mann. We are not supposed to expect real dates, courting, and god forbid marriage. Black women = gold digger. White women = smart. Black men gaslight black AMERICAN women into being soldiers for the race because if they didn't we would be out here like every other woman on this planet looking for the best deal regardless of his complexion.
This thread is a form of gaslighting: Black men always want to talk, negotiate and try to police and dominate us and our choices instead of strategizing and building with other black men so they can compete with the white man they so desperately want to emulate. The so-called "good black man" needs to focus on banding together with men instead of trying to bring black women back into the fold. They want the white man's status, his power, his money, and his woman but do nothing necessary to establish themselves as men in a patriarchal society. Just talk or complain about racism.
I'm talking about sons and daughters of African immigrants. They do refer to themselves as Ghanaian, Nigerian. Of course by the 2nd and 3rd generation they're more likely to marry outside of their culture.
Look this perspective of African immigrants. The way Americans think of Africa (people living in huts, "backwards", no technology. I've had African immigrants say that people have assumed they don't know what running water or elevators are and that she English is the official language of her country. The writer Chimimanda Ngozi Adichie said this in an interview. African immigrants often hold negative stereotypes of African Americans based on what they see in the media. So the same way some people see Africans, is the same way people see them.
This is true not only for Africans but for other black people as well in other parts of the world. My parents believed blacks like to shoot people. This is a stereotype. Also I remember following my mom to the doctors office years ago, and I came across a man of Caribbean descent who has been here in America for years. He said white people would prefer to hire Caribbean people because African Americans were too lazy. And don't get me started on the Dominican Republic and what they think about African Americans. I knew this one Dominican guy, he was upset because his subordinate was playing basketball. He told his subordinate why are you playing a sport with monkeys? Funny thing is this Dominican guy looks like the President of Sudan.
The keyword is "their," as in, black women are entitled to determine what is important to them and they should not be criticized for doing so.
Obviously, there are many factors that people look for when selecting a potential mate. What I find is interesting is that black women are constantly told to lower their standards, no matter what they are. To be more specific, this is typically how it goes:
BW: I want to date/marry a man with a degree
Peanut gallery: A guy with a steady job should is good enough
BW: I want to date/marry a man who does not have any children
Peanut gallery: But he only has 1 child and doesn't pay child support
BW: I want to date/marry a man who doesn't have a criminal
Peanut gallery: He doesn't do that anymore - he's a changed man
In other words, whatever standard black women set for themselves, there will always be someone who says it is too high.
Black women lower their standards when its too late. Any way, this is from my observation and experience with black women. And yes I love, I love, I love black women. And I would not mind marrying on either. I tend to attract educated, talented professional black women. I don't attract the other kind even though I live in such areas. I'm well spoken, well put together, and I hold a couple of degrees myself, but without the debt. I was supposed to go on a date with this beautiful black woman. Smart educated, has an MA, single no kids, and she is in her mid 30s. As for me? single, no kids, no criminal record, good credit score, educated, employed and such. However I told her about a comment I made on a public forum that was controversial. Black men were telling me to go back to my country, calling me racist and xenophobic comments first. I called them the N word back. I didn't mean it. I'm also a black man myself, but not African American. Being mixed race, people do see me as an outsider. Any way, she could not date me because of that one word I had used. This woman lost herself the closest thing to a good man and a good ideal black man. She will be single for another year or so. And she is the type where physical attraction isn't everything and its all about personality.
On the other hand, some black women do need physical attraction to be with someone, but these women are not well educated. Go to low income black areas. Do you think an overweight black woman wants to be with an overweight guy? No. Also its not only black women who think about criteria's they want in a man. White women do it too. Asian women do it too, and likewise with Latina women. In many urban liberal areas of America, you have plenty of white women who moved for careers, and for them finding a good man is hard. Plenty of well educated, attractive career driven white men are getting plenty of tail in NYC and DC, because of desirability from all sorts of women.
Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 04-14-2017 at 09:18 AM..
This reminds me of a (black) guy that I dated briefly several years ago. We started talking about travel, where we had been and the possibility of taking a trip together. I asked him what would be his dream destination any where in the world and his answer was Florida . This sparked a deeper discussion because I told him that I love to travel overseas and I asked him if he would be willing to get a passport. He literally acted insulted that I would even suggest the need for a passport and said that there was nothing outside of the US that he needed to see. This guy is college educated with a white collar job.
Two weeks ago at brunch I overheard a convo between a white family and a single middle aged white man. The grandma with the family was from Alabama. The father in the family was being relocated to the Balkans. The grandma mentioned that she would have to get a passport, her first, in order to visit her grandkids.
Many Americans don't really see the need to get a passport and it it wasn't for new rules of travel to Mexico and the Caribbean many more people wouldn't even bother either.
I personally believe in hypergamy. It is what I strive for in my own relationships and it was taught to me by the elder men and women in my life. Its not about "the money" but I want to be cared for and in turn I will take care of my man.
Yes, I can take care of myself and I do well financially but I am a traditionalist do not want a marriage in which I am the breadwinner or required to contribute a large portion to the household income after I have children. What I have found interesting is that I have NEVER received a pushback from white or Hispanic guys when I talk about being a traditional woman but black guys tend to have a problem with it. But my (black) father believed that it was his duty to be the breadwinner and my mother worked only if she wanted to do so. He valued the beautiful home that she kept and that she took care of her looks. That may sound shallow to some but they were married for over 40 years.
Funny I would get push back from black women when I would say I would want a stay at home wife/mother. The conversation would immediately descend into money.
I've found that black women aren't used to or somewhat stunned when dating traditional minded black men. My ex-coworker's husband wanted her to stay at home for awhile after their first child, she refused. It put a temporary strain on their marriage.
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. This sparked a deeper discussion because I told him that I love to travel overseas and I asked him if he would be willing to get a passport. He literally acted insulted that I would even suggest the need for a passport and said that there was nothing outside of the US that he needed to see. This guy is college educated with a white collar job.
). But I don't need a man to give me money. I can make my own money. I want a man who wants to travel with me and discuss the themes of books and how they relate to our present day era and who makes me laugh and will be apt to comfort me when I'm having a bad day. Money is not and IMO should not be something a woman strives for in a man. I think that causes a disturbance in the balance of the relationship. Both should bring something to the table and make financial plans together and if that plan is the man providing, then that is fine, but no woman IMO should seek a man to take care of her financially. If she is able bodied and able minded she can do that herself. I agree with him that black women and black men have for a long time been "equals." Ironically I believe that the issues between us as discussed in the thread are a factor only because many black men don't like that they are equals to black women and instead they want a more Christian based, patriarchal family where they are the dominant leader in the family. They want to have an advantage and not be equal to the woman.