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You are anti-vaccine if you refuse some vaccines because in order to do so you either have failed to understand the benefit of the vaccine compared to the risk or you vastly underestimate the risk of the disease. For example, being anti-HPV vaccine because you are convinced that Pap smears are the answer to HPV or being anti-rotavirus vaccine because you are convinced that if your baby gets it you can just nurse him 24 hours a day and it will be all better. The same for flu.
If you refuse vaccines based on bad "research" you are anti-vaccine. Either that or you are knowingly hiding in the herd. If so, own up to it.
I guess you would say I'm an "anti-vaxxer" in that I don't get an annual flu vaccination.
The benefit of the vaccine doesn't seem very high for me personally, and the risk of the illness (should I contract it) is not very high for me either.
I don't not get it due to bad research.
I guess you would say I'm knowingly hiding in the herd then. Fine, I'll own it.
Words have meaning and the language speaks for itself. The only people who can be legitimately labelled as "anti-vaxxers" are those who are against all vaccines. It doesn't make sense to label someone who got four vaccines but refused two as being anti-vaccine because clearly they are not against vaccines if they chose to get some. It's a misuse of the language to claim that otherwise.
Many people who are opposed to vaccines hate being called "anti-vax". It's just so, you know, negative. It implies being against something. So they've come up with new jargon. A big one is "vaccine safety". You will see/hear all told number of anti-vaxers saying they're pro "vaccine safety", including Jenny McCarthy, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Jill Stein. (Stein, I should add was really just pandering; I think she knows better.) McCarthy has gone on to other pursuits since she's decided her son isn't autistic after all. Kennedy has written some virulently anti-vax stuff about the latest meningitis vaccine and sent it to the editors of newspapers in college towns, all the while proclaiming to be "fiercely pro-vaccine". He also claims vaccines cause autism and has compared vaccines to the holocaust. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Doing the math on meningitis vaccinations - Boulder Daily Camera Chloe Mugg: A rebuttal to RFK Jr. on meningitis B - Boulder Daily Camera Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Compared Vaccines to a Holocaust
An anti-vax blogger using the psuedonym Guggie Daly has written an article on preferred terms. You can read it here: https://issuu.com/naturalmothermagaz...ury_2017_final (Article starts on p. 78) The whole purpose of this new vocab is to discredit vaccines while appearing to have a higher moral stand of "vaccine safety".
In point of fact, vaccines are very safe now, and more research is continuously being done to improve their safety even more.
Nice rant!
That's great to see. I hated the term "anti vax and pro vax." Vaccine safety fits so much better. Now it's much less divisive. It's so unnecessary to be hyped up about a topic that doesn't deserve it. Waste of energy. It's like the "should you circumcise little johnny or not" topics. It just an excuse to belittle others.
Hopefully this new jargon will help end this. After all, most people get most vaccines. Those who don't get any are a very small group. Just not worth it. After all we are healthcare consumers, and it's a business. You shouldn't force people to do business. If it's for the "greater good" we wouldn't be making so much money off of it.
I guess you would say I'm an "anti-vaxxer" in that I don't get an annual flu vaccination.
The benefit of the vaccine doesn't seem very high for me personally, and the risk of the illness (should I contract it) is not very high for me either.
I don't not get it due to bad research.
I guess you would say I'm knowingly hiding in the herd then. Fine, I'll own it.
You just proved my point. Anyone can get influenza and end up hospitalized from it, even die from it. Perfectly healthy children die from flu every year. About 90% of them were not vaccinated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokinouta
That's great to see. I hated the term "anti vax and pro vax." Vaccine safety fits so much better. Now it's much less divisive. It's so unnecessary to be hyped up about a topic that doesn't deserve it. Waste of energy. It's like the "should you circumcise little johnny or not" topics. It just an excuse to belittle others.
Hopefully this new jargon will help end this. After all, most people get most vaccines. Those who don't get any are a very small group. Just not worth it. After all we are healthcare consumers, and it's a business. You shouldn't force people to do business. If it's for the "greater good" we wouldn't be making so much money off of it.
The problem is that the people who want anti-vaccinationism to be about "safety" reject the enormous pile of evidence that shows that vaccines are safe. They will never, ever, ever admit that a vaccine is safe enough to satisfy their definition of safe.
There is more money to be made in treating vaccine preventable diseases than in selling vaccines. The "making so much money" argument just does not fly.
The problem with the "very small group" of those who refuse all vaccines is that they like to live in clusters. That makes them a hazard to their entire community.
You just proved my point. Anyone can get influenza and end up hospitalized from it, even die from it. Perfectly healthy children die from flu every year. About 90% of them were not vaccinated.
Yes, but the [risk] of that, for me, is not very high.
What assurance do you have that you will not get very, very sick and end up in the hospital if you get influenza?
None.
I'm giving consideration to the facts: I'm extremely healthy, almost never get sick, have never gotten the flu despite being exposed to it, take great care of myself, and seem to have genetics on my side. (I also have that "hiding in the herd" bit that you mentioned.)
It's a probability. I'm unlikely to get the flu, and quite unlikely to end up in the hospital or die from it. I'm not in a high-risk category, I'm likely in the lowest-risk category there is.
What assurance can you give that someone who does get the flu vaccine will not get very, very sick from the flu? None.
In summary, I've never had the flu, I've never gotten the flu vaccine, and barring some sort of coercion I'll probably continue to not get the flu vaccine. I know it's frustrating. You're free to refer to me as an anti-vaxxer and/or consider me an idiot if you like.
again- your whole hypothesis is based off your anecdotal evidence...thank god real science doesn't work the same...
Real science is only as good as the people behind it. Unfortunately, the people behind it can be swayed by funding. They need the job, and we are a for profit healthcare system. The government cuts funding often and they rely on businesses. The science isn't very good when scientist are influenced by pharma companies.
The problem is when people like you ask the public in a for profit system to trust the healthcare industry. Then you want mandates to guarantee funds. It's very see through, and some people will want choice under those circumstances, at least those who know what you are saying is not true. With so many deceptions, the public has the right to choice.
You just proved my point. Anyone can get influenza and end up hospitalized from it, even die from it. Perfectly healthy children die from flu every year. About 90% of them were not vaccinated.
The problem is that the people who want anti-vaccinationism to be about "safety" reject the enormous pile of evidence that shows that vaccines are safe. They will never, ever, ever admit that a vaccine is safe enough to satisfy their definition of safe.
There is more money to be made in treating vaccine preventable diseases than in selling vaccines. The "making so much money" argument just does not fly.
The problem with the "very small group" of those who refuse all vaccines is that they like to live in clusters. That makes them a hazard to their entire community.
A hazard? lol Like the pesticide your neighbor is using kind of hazard? Like the hazard from eating fruits from the grocery laden with pesticide? We live with hazard. You make it sound like they're murders. That's just an exaggeration. The numbers just aren't there. What, you believe the science as absolute truth yet you don't believe in the math?
The risk is simply not big enough to warrant a mandate. Now, the amount of money pharma needs to make to keep making vaccines without losing money is worth a mandate. The numbers fit there. With the information age, it's just difficult to sell us on this fear.
I would rather hold a two year old down once for two injections than put him through the same thing on another visit.
Good point. I'd also rather do that than hold the child down for an IV because he got a VPD.
In point of fact, if the parent follows the schedule, the child will be fully vaccinated by two, actually by 18 months if there are no interruptions in the schedule. Then all they need is their annual flu vaccine until they go to kindergarten.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokinouta
The risk is simply not big enough to warrant a mandate. Now, the amount of money pharma needs to make to keep making vaccines without losing money is worth a mandate. The numbers fit there. With the information age, it's just difficult to sell us on this fear.
Let's see 'em! "Fear" is part of the anti-vax mantra, Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
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